You're a guy on a date. Who pays?
- Thread starter LaughingJester
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Same deal here, we have a joint account, so doesn't really matter who pays anymore.ace_of_something said:
However, back in the day, when I was still dating, the guy usually paid. Pretty much because he'd been the one to ask me out, and because that's just the way I've been brought up, old-fashioned style. I guess now that I'm older, wiser and, most importantly, actually have a salary, I wouldn't be opposed to paying the bill if I asked the guy out, or splitting it.
Paying 50/50 is a pain in the ass. One person should pay for one meal or whatever and the next time it should be the other person. In my opinion the guy should always, at least, pay for the first few dates and if the girl fights you for it then an agreement can be made.
I wouldn't say it's a grudge, exactly, but yes a lot of feminists aren't happy with the current "pros and cons" that men and women get. I would be perfectly happy to open my own doors if it meant getting paid a little more, for example! And... would you believe that apparently women in some cultures pee standing up? Fer serious. (Not relevant to your point exactly, but it's an interesting question about just how "natural" the differences between men and women are.Farther than stars said:That's funny, since usually feminism does stem from a grudge againt the way things are in a society that used to be/is coming out of a state that was/is male-dominated (ooh, look at me being all careful with my words).Evidencebased said:--snip--
Yup, total man hater! ;D
But yeah, I'm afraid I'm just the boring ol' everyone-is-equal kind of feminist who tries to treat both men and women fairly, and not stereotype anyone. I won't say I've never judged a guy unfairly or believed a male stereotype but I actively practice not doing so nowadays. I pay for myself on dates, but I also understand and sympathize with men who feel like they "should" pay thanks to unfair pressure from our culture. I think feminism actually makes me kinder to and more respectful of men, because I see them just like any other human beings who try their best in a sometimes-cruel world, instead of demanding that they repress their emotions or fight bears all the time like a stereotypical "real" man.
It's funny that you should mention the words "should" and "pressure" though, because in that situation I feel that I "should", but there's no pressure or anything. I'm really fine with men having to for dates, but then that may just come from my total lack of interest in money.
At the end of the day, I've always looked at it as men and women being different, both physically (for sure) and mentally too (probably). We always have been and so I can understand there being a difference for men and women in societal norms and I think that's appropriate too.
Men hold doors open, women women have to pee sitting down. Men get paid more, women get better custody over the kids. It's all just pros and cons.
)As for "pressure" I don't even necessarily mean that it makes you miserable (or bothers you at all) just that there is a certain expectation that men at least offer to pay, and that can make life difficult for some guys -- I know that some men who can't afford to pay for dates feel embarrassed when their girlfriend pays, and some girls refuse to date a man who isn't able to pay for her meal, and I personally think that's a pity.
I agree that men and women are on average physically different (for starters: uteruses are mostly a lady thing!) but I'm still not convinced about the mental side of things. And I think our culture overemphasizes the differences; sure, men generally have more upper body strength than I do but I'm still physically capable of opening a door or pulling out my own chair. Sexual dimorphism in humans really isn't that extreme!
(And about the murder thing... that was totally a joke! I've only ever dated very sweet guys who wouldn't lay a hand on me. But thank you for your concern.
)
Depends on the girl.
I have a friend who's an "independent woman" and she absolutely refuses to let me pay for a meal for her unless it's a special occasion like her birthday or something. Not because she's all that polite, but because she feels like if I pay for her, she's somehow losing some of her independence. Which I find hilarious, considering that she does everything her bf tells her, and she's been acting like "I am woman, hear me roar" since long before her bf.
My gf insists on paying for half because she feels that it's unfair for me to have to pay for every meal when we go out. So might let me pay for movie tickets or something that's not too expensive because she doesn't want to put a strain on my. She also doesn't want me to buy her expensive gifts for the same reason and freaked out when I bought her a necklace as a combination 1st year anniversary/birthday present for her (I was late because my mom was sick with cancer and passed away between my gf's birthday and our anniversay).
On yet another hand, I have a friend, who I rarely see because of our hecktic shcedules. She's another "independent woman" but on the occasions I am able to get together with her, I say, "Hey, let's get together over lunch"and I pay. She lets me pay for a few reasons. One, we've known each other for a while and she knows I'm not using the meal as a pretest to get into her pants. Two, she tends to be strapped for money because she has an old car that constantly needs fixing and shares an apartment with her bf and anoter room mate. I know that some people might call her a mooch, but she's bought me lunch a handful of times, and I don't feel bad paying for her to have decent food on the rare occasions we get together.
I have a friend who's an "independent woman" and she absolutely refuses to let me pay for a meal for her unless it's a special occasion like her birthday or something. Not because she's all that polite, but because she feels like if I pay for her, she's somehow losing some of her independence. Which I find hilarious, considering that she does everything her bf tells her, and she's been acting like "I am woman, hear me roar" since long before her bf.
My gf insists on paying for half because she feels that it's unfair for me to have to pay for every meal when we go out. So might let me pay for movie tickets or something that's not too expensive because she doesn't want to put a strain on my. She also doesn't want me to buy her expensive gifts for the same reason and freaked out when I bought her a necklace as a combination 1st year anniversary/birthday present for her (I was late because my mom was sick with cancer and passed away between my gf's birthday and our anniversay).
On yet another hand, I have a friend, who I rarely see because of our hecktic shcedules. She's another "independent woman" but on the occasions I am able to get together with her, I say, "Hey, let's get together over lunch"and I pay. She lets me pay for a few reasons. One, we've known each other for a while and she knows I'm not using the meal as a pretest to get into her pants. Two, she tends to be strapped for money because she has an old car that constantly needs fixing and shares an apartment with her bf and anoter room mate. I know that some people might call her a mooch, but she's bought me lunch a handful of times, and I don't feel bad paying for her to have decent food on the rare occasions we get together.
Whoever has got more cash pays.
This rule has served me well.
Of course, nowadays, the wife pretty much always takes care of it, what with her being the one who usually carries the cash (I never seem to have the right currency on me when I need it, and a lot of places around here don't take cards).
Either way, if either partner in a relationship expects to be kept, GET RID OF THEM. THAT WAY LIES MADNESS!
This rule has served me well.
Of course, nowadays, the wife pretty much always takes care of it, what with her being the one who usually carries the cash (I never seem to have the right currency on me when I need it, and a lot of places around here don't take cards).
Either way, if either partner in a relationship expects to be kept, GET RID OF THEM. THAT WAY LIES MADNESS!
I wasn't really thinking of the doors thing as a trade off for the whole payment thing. But then you probably already knew that. >.> Interesting thing about the peeing though, but you cannot deny that it's easier for men.Evidencebased said:I wouldn't say it's a grudge, exactly, but yes a lot of feminists aren't happy with the current "pros and cons" that men and women get. I would be perfectly happy to open my own doors if it meant getting paid a little more, for example! And... would you believe that apparently women in some cultures pee standing up? Fer serious. (Not relevant to your point exactly, but it's an interesting question about just how "natural" the differences between men and women are.
As for "pressure" I don't even necessarily mean that it makes you miserable (or bothers you at all) just that there is a certain expectation that men at least offer to pay, and that can make life difficult for some guys -- I know that some men who can't afford to pay for dates feel embarrassed when their girlfriend pays, and some girls refuse to date a man who isn't able to pay for her meal, and I personally think that's a pity.
I agree that men and women are on average physically different (for starters: uteruses are mostly a lady thing!) but I'm still not convinced about the mental side of things. And I think our culture overemphasizes the differences; sure, men generally have more upper body strength than I do but I'm still physically capable of opening a door or pulling out my own chair. Sexual dimorphism in humans really isn't that extreme!
(And about the murder thing... that was totally a joke! I've only ever dated very sweet guys who wouldn't lay a hand on me. But thank you for your concern.
I don't buy the whole mentality thing though. Physical factors influence the brain and the brain influences the way we think. May I name PMSing as an gender-related example? I'm also perfectly willing to admit that women are, on average, better at parallel processing than men are.
Anyway, it's been nice sharing views with a feminist on this; and a feminist with a sense humour at that! Usually when I've talked to other feminists about the differences between men and women they tend to get really angry, really quickly. But I think it's good to discuss them, because then you can get closer to resolving gender issues, through mutual respect and understanding. ^.^
I always pay. There could be exceptions, but not very often. It's not a matter of principles or anything like that, I just like doing it. It's somewhere between wanting to be nice and feeling good about it, and a sort of superiority complex or something along those lines. Not superiority complex per se, but everyone I've dated had less money than me. I've been working for eight or so years now, with a good salary, so I can afford it. Why ponder it too much?
Oh wait, I guess I just did...
Oh wait, I guess I just did...
I usually pay all of the bills. Just because I am a gentleman and I learned to treat other people as I want to be treated.
But if she insists on paying, I wouldn't mind.
But if she insists on paying, I wouldn't mind.
Let me see if I remember. I as the guy always offered to pay, but split the bill if my date insisted on it. Also I led my date to the table after holding the door for her. Then held her chair as she sat. I also did all the ordering unless my date couldn't seem decide in which case I would still order but I would make my order and then "...and I think it is the Blah blah" with a questioning look to my date just in case my date had changed her mind.
Same here.Mouldy Cheese said:
As a woman, I think it's unfair to expect the guy to pay for everything.On the other hand, sometimes it feels a bit like leaving the price tag on a present when one splits the bill (though I suppose this feeling can't be avoided totally in a restaurant, as most show what each item costs when you're ordering it in the first place). If it's possible for each person to pay for all of one thing (e.g. one paying the restaurant bill and the other buying theatre tickets, assuming the costs are relatively similar), that works well too.
Yes, this is pretty much ideal.Sexual Harassment Panda said:
