BioWare Co-Founder Accuses JRPGs of Stagnation

[Awexsome]

Bioware does like their dialogue options but there are JRPS that tell a better stand alone story than they've ever done. I can imagine this guy wearing a top hat and mustache with a monocole slightly pushing it up every other sentence. Good company with good games but quite a douchebag comment there.

 

[MattAn24]

Final Fantasy 13 sold a lot because it has a massive fanbase after making 14 FUCKING GAMES ALREADY. And since its a JRPG its hard not to expect it to sell well in Japan.

Y--Your point being..? Way to be a jackass!

Just because it's a JRPG, it means it MUST be popular in Japan? Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

And what is so bad about "14 FUCKING GAMES ALREADY". They are SEPERATE GAMES. Not one game is linked to the other, there are -references-, but they are nowhere near the same storylines. Calling them sequels is just a moot point altogether. Using roman numerals and numbering a popular series does NOT warrant that sort of bitterness! Hell, using THAT logic, Call of Duty is up to 6 or so, is THAT too much? Just because it's called "Final Fantasy", does not give anyone the excuse to say that "the name means that it's final!!1111oneone!!11" Grow up. It's what the game is called. No more, no less.

And here I thought every JRPG was different. Lol. He's preaching to the choir here...of course they've all been the same gameplay-wise. Hopefully Final Fantasy 13's combat is something at least slightly new.

Wh-what..? That makes absolutely no sense! o.o Each and every game has quite a different battle system, not only that, but there have been MANY changes and additions to each game! Yes, the earlier SNES ones had a similar battle schematic, and obviously, why not? It was the SNES. The PlayStation ones, although turn-based, continually changed the way you DID them. 7 was fairly basic with Materia, 8 with Draw, 9 with more of the classic ability-learning from weapons/armour and 10.. Well, that was a brand new system entirely. It had no ATB bar, you could change characters in the midst of battle. Saying that the games are all the same is absolutely absurd.

 

[FoolKiller]

This is just plain dumb. The point of the JRPG is not to have choices and branching story paths. The point is to experience the story. The JRPG is the video game equivalent of a novel or movie.

 

[theultimateend]

Gosh, reading this thread, it looks like calling out Bioware for making games that follow a similar template has become the new "Dances with Wolves...in Space". Or is it the other way around. I forget which one came first.

This response is more cliche than what the response is about. I'll leave you to your own devices to figure out why.

 

[God's Clown]

I actually like the linearity of JRPG's. I am a sucker for a good story, and JRPG's often deliver a very good story. Choices are nice, and I enjoy the romance stories that you can get off of choices, but I don't really think JRPG should include too many choices.

I really think the world needs both Western with it's choices and all together giant open world feel, and JRPG's need their linearity.

 

[MattAn24]

@GodsClown, yes and no. JRPG's, as I said, ARE bringing in a more decisive story around the bigger picture. Yes, it's an epic storyline that is usually good guy saves world, etc.. But again, they're all in different ways. JRPG's spend more time actually getting you in touch with the group of characters, you're on that adventure WITH them. Most WRPG's, although they make the game entirely situational, sometimes it's just a little too much and you just don't care for the characters.

 

[Hiroshi Mishima]

I'm really on the edge here, honestly.

One one hand, I genuinely believe that something has gone wrong in the JRPG genre. I used to LOVE the genre, and in fact still play my golden age era games of the NES, SNES, and PS1... and to a lesser extent the GBA. Today's JRPGs, while often very "pretty" to look at, all tend to feel drawn out. I don't think it's necessarilly too much dialogue, either. When I look back on Rogue Galaxy, and I found myself really interested in the story, what bogged me down into playing it for FOUR god damn MONTHS was the insane ammount of "fetch quests" involving killing, discovering, or obtaining X ammount of something and then returning to some NPC for better weapons/armour/skills/items. I miss the days of say... Final Fantasy Mystic Quest (still a classic fav) where you got the better stuff by _playing through the game_ which is to say finding them in dungeons, getting them from people you meet, or by obtaining level ups. I don't like feeling forced to PLAY the game for long periods of time. I don't like grinding that much. Trying to get one more level before the next dungeon or big boss is one thing, but grinding for the sake of grinding is NOT appealing.

And I think JRPGs have become to "pretty" and "flashy", too. It's all about REALISTIC GRAPHICS.. then you see girls with physically impossible breasts/bodies, characters who are complete genderbenders without actually having to be mostly covered (Gogo for the win), or look like friggin pop stars. I still hate what they did to Yuna and Rikku in FFX-2, that design move was atrocious.


Now, on the other hand, I have to say what I've said for years (and I said the stuff above for years too, but no one listens). Bioware's RPGs are very much the same thing with different packaging. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's basically saying if you played KotOR then you already kind of played Mass Effect because it's basically the same thing. Oh, except for the sex. I'm getting really tired of all the sex in the RPG/JRPG industry. Sex isn't the selling point of games for me, and never has been. Back in the old days games sold because they looked nice without being overbearing, had compelling storylines and/or great gameplay. They had BALANCE and games today often feel like they're lacking in balance. It's almost always over the top graphics with mediocre plot and play control, or MASSIVE stories and gameplay of about 10 minutes, or perfect gameplay and.. you guessed it... look so badly you died constantly because you couldn't FIND anything or figure out what to do. But that's more of a general tirade against the game's industry itself...

Ah, how I can't stay on topic...

 

[MarsProbe]

Gosh, reading this thread, it looks like calling out Bioware for making games that follow a similar template has become the new "Dances with Wolves...in Space". Or is it the other way around. I forget which one came first.

This response is more cliche than what the response is about. I'll leave you to your own devices to figure out why.

Or alternatively, you could just explain it to me. As I'll admit, you got me stumped here.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I sometimes like the combat gameplay in JRPGs and think that they do evolve it and change things. I can't say if they change it enough or too much as that would be down to personal preference and I'm not a big hotshot founder of an important company with important opinions up the wazoo so who would care. What does get me about them are the stories which are most often a embarrassment or a waste of time that I could have spent looking at funny cat pictures. There are exceptions like Skies of Arcadia which I would put at the same level as funny cat pictures.

Bioware games have always had pretty bad gameplay to me. Neverwinter Nights and Jade Empire were not too bad but the rest I probably wouldn't have been too bothered if they replaced the combat system with one from a Final Fantasy game. Yeah, my personal preference, I lied, I do have opinions up the wazoo. Bioware made up for the bad gameplay for me by having interesting side quests and entertaining characters but this effect has been wearing off for me to the point where they are the company who desperately needs to innovate.

 

[Grayjack]

Pretty much this. Pick up any of the recent or, hell, even the old SMT games and try to tell me they aren't good. I heartily recommend Devil Survivor for the DS or Persona 4 for the ps2

I heartily recommend Nocturne.

 

[The Youth Counselor]

I other news, the head of CERN accuses the earth of being round.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I other news, the head of CERN accuses the earth of being round.

Earth isn't round, it's flattened at the poles. This proves that Bioware are wrong.

 

[kingcom]

This is like accusing that water is wet.

 

[Siegreich]

People keep saying JRPG's but only ever talk about square, there are other companies out there like atlus that continue to evolve the genre

 

[Spitfire175]

Well, he is accusing JRPGs for not giving the player a chance to interact with the story. Which is true, it's peculiar how it's adamant that no player must ever mess up the watered down linearity of JRPGs. It's like the developers don't trust the players enough to give them any responsibility.

And another thing, all of you JRPG fanboys and the likes, you blame Bioware and compare only Bioware games to JRPGs, while the actual target should be WRPGs. It's not like Bioware is the only game developer out there. Take The Witcher, for example. It gives the player full responsibility of the story and character development. You actually have to think about your actions, not just kill everything and move to the next cut scene. There are many ways of finishing the game, and there are more than just one type of ending. I think WRPGs have evolved more and actually brought something new to gamers. And sometimes the story doesn't have to move at a constant pace, not everything in the world can be up to one guy/party. So there might be a bit of a breather that allows the player to look a bit more into the world he's dropped into, or perhaps interact with NPCs and do some acutual "role playing".

If you want to eat the same piece of cardboard for the billionth time, go right ahead. But at least don't get offended if someone says "you're eating cardboard".

Now I'll just wait for angry replies.

 

[SaintWaldo]

Thanks for the "pot, kettle, black" check.

And he's right: Demon's Souls pretty much kicks every JRPG in the balls and dares it to wince.

 

[PrimeSynergy]

Well of course he says this, he's part of a developer of WRPGs, why would he give props to the competition?

Some of it is true, but the problem here is that JRPGs are for the overly epic stories. If a story is really, really good, then I'd much rather it be linear. Knowing me, Id' make some dumbass choice to fuck it up.

Also, and I understand he isn't saying he wants this in the article, but the JRPG dying is a bad thing. Gaming is like a species. The more diversity there is to it, the better chance it has to survive.

I guess he has a problem with Coca-Cola as well. Same stagnating, unchanging formula. People who love it for that very -reason be DAMNED.-
I like jrpg's for those very reasons. Just like we go to see action movies or thrillers and they all follow the same formula. They can be awesome and original, but they boil down to hero overcomes impossible odds to win in the final fight scene, or hyper-sensitive detective overcomes all odds and finds the killer thru a series of luck and unrealistic proficiency.
I like jrpg's and wrpg's, but saying the jrpg's are stagnating is like saying choice based conversation systems are cliched, or leveling up thru xp is SO 20 years ago.

God, like BioWare has any room to talk. Sure, each of their games has its own unique features, but one could make a very convincing argument that Mass Effect and Dragon Age are basically just reskinned versions of KOTOR. Compare that with, say, the differences present in some Square Enix RPGS (Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, and The World Ends With You all have incredibly different playstyles), and Zeschuk's statement just seems to make a little less impact.

Agreed.

And it's not like Western RPGs are that much different from each other. Look at most of the RPGs for PC. They're either dungeon crawlers or about a guy traveling from town to town slaying 'evil' along the way. Does that automatically make them bad? No way! So I ask you, what's with the hate of JRPGs, BioWare? They might be linear, but they're sure a heck of a lot of fun.

Which reminds me....KOTOR, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc. A nobody who starts from humble beginnings who ultimately turns out to be the savior of the planet,universe, LIFE, w/e and must band together a ragtag group of random people. Sure BioWare.....JRPGs are the only ones who never change.

So I'll go take my Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasies, Disgaeas, Demons Souls, and Valkyria Chronicles and sit in my closed off linear bubble. Pfft

 

[open trap]

The only JRPG i have ever played was Pokemon. Randome battles are annoying.

 

[Jonesy911]

Doesn't anyone see it a bit hypocritical of Greg Zeschuk to say Jrpgs are stagnating when his own company releases the same RPG every few years with a different skin? I still love Kotor, Mass Effect and Dragon age but they are all basically the same game.

Whereas Squaresoft releases "The World Ends With You", "Final Fantasy: Crisis Core" and "Star Ocean: The Last Hope" all within the same 2-3 year span and they are all completely different

 

[FloodOne]

If all RPG's offered the usual mess of an open ended story, I'll probably pass on the genre altogether.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a well polished WRPG, but I started playing the genre because they were like interactive books. Then they grew into interactive movies around the ps2 era. I happen to like it that way.