Bioware: FF13 is not an RPG

[stiborge]

I don't know. I respect Bioware and the games they make (I love Mass Effect), but that seems kind of egotistical. Games like Final Fantasy have been considered RPGs due to various class choices and sat rasing since the 1980s. What made them suddenly not RPGs?

Because you do neither of those things in FF13

You do both of those things in FFXIII (besides the classes not being pre defined and the game definitely had classes that they wanted you to give each person). I wouldn't say you do them very well, atleast not as well as previous Final Fantasies but you do do them.

 

[EightGaugeHippo]

Iv agreed with that statement ever since I got into RPGs. Role Playing Games are games where you make the experence your own, but in most jrpgs its all predetermined adventures right down to the point where you dont even choose the name of you character (with some exeptions). Iv nothing againts JRPGs by the way, just dont like them being called RPGs in any sense.

 

[Isendell]

You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character

Bioware - guys, where's my ability to ROLEPLAY an armourer or a peasant? Why can't I ROLEPLAY an emotionless bastard that ignores everyone around him? Why do I have to land my ship and get out of it instead of blasting shit from the sky? ROLEPLAYING of the pen & paper variety lets me do that, and you're using that as your guide as to what makes a ROLEPLAYING game, so why won't you let me do it?

You give me a set of choices to choose from, you let me create a character that's the exact same as other characters, give or take a couple skills and various levels of ugliness, and I certainly don't live your bloody character. You give me Captain Generic's Adventures in Space/Middle Earth, not ROLEPLAYING by the definition that you seem to be using to say FFXIII isn't a RPG.

I'm not sure why you have to be so silly about it. But bold caps are cruise control for cool anyway so rock on. It seems you want to be able to do absolutely anything in the game world given to you, which is probably a bit impractical since I don't think a game developer could allow for every possible choice you might make. Bioware's definition of roleplaying in their games is to give you a character and a story and allow you to make it your own through character customisation and story and gameplay choices. Where does FF13 offer anything like that? Erickson is free to highlight that glaring difference between the games.

You have to understand there is a limit to the scope of choice in these RPG's otherwise you break the game narrative and make it completely pointless. I'm trying not to come across as condescending writing this but frankly your quoted arguement is so ridiculous I'm going to have to give up. Remember that these are roleplaying video games. If you want total freedom over a myriad of choices you could do that with nothing but pen, paper and an imagination.

 

[jebussaves88]

I wholeheartedly agree with him, but I must say that despite not being a FF fan as such, FF XIII is one of the most enjoyable games I've played this generation. Maybe not being a fan helps.

 

[Nomanslander]

You know if that developer from Bioware just wanted to express how he'd wish there was more control in character development in JRPGs that would have been...you know! less insulting.

0o

 

[Tony2077]

why do you people care so much just play them or don't it doesn't really matter that much what there called

 

[Kurokami]

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/8006/bioware-you-can-put-a-j-in-front-of-it-but-final-fantasy-13-isnt-an-rpg

Bioware's Daniel Erickson:
Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's."

I tend to agree but that's my opinion.

Agreed, but then I also wouldn't really want to put FF in there either.

I've decided, the game is a J called 13

 

[SlasherX]

I completely agree with this guys opinion but its an opinion and like assholes we all have one but he makes a great point FFXIII sucked so bad to me it took 25 hour to choose your team I got so pissed off and I love Bioware game all of them are amazing but yeah he WORKS AT BIOWARE they exclusiveley make games where you basically control everything so I can see how he doesnt like Final Fantasy and anyway its a rival company im not going to say another company game is good even if it descends from the heavens and gives me cookies Ill just say its cool

 

[Akalistos]

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/8006/bioware-you-can-put-a-j-in-front-of-it-but-final-fantasy-13-isnt-an-rpg

Bioware's Daniel Erickson:
Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's."

And yet most of what he call RPG have as much story as a Nintendo game. Basically, does Facebook's Vampire War is a rpg because he have a customizable avatar? No. Beside, if it wasn't for DLC, i wouldn't call Fallout 3 a RPG. Slandering something because of one point is just nonconstructive. Make some game and STFU! This is nothing more than a stun to make some publicity on the back of other and it piss me off. See here:

Bioware's Daniel Erickson

And it worked because at the time of writing 250 people commented. Congratulation everyone.
(I would like to point out before being quoted that i don't like FF13/8/10/12/2 so it not a FF Fanboy rage.)

 

[bladin]

Before i get into this arguement, let me ask you. Who the heck suddenly defined rpg's as "your playing yourself in your own story". Honestly who? I've never seen this classified as that before. And frankly there doesn't exist a rpg on the market who has this.

Oblivion, fallout, mass effect, etc etc. All boil down to. "THIS IS WHO YOU ARE, THIS IS THE STORYLINE" you can beat everyone one of those games, in a predefined ending, you can beat predefined quests given to you by a predefined npc.

You see it's a illusion of freedom and customization. If i have to play a game going from A-B-C-------Z or i can play it going A-C-D-S-Q------Z sure each play experience may be done in a different order, but your still playing the same game doing the same things in SOMEONE ELSES story.

There is not a single rpg out there right now, that is a rpg comparable to pen and paper adventuring. And even then, generally you are set in the GM's world, trying to solve his crisis, the current quest. VERY rarely do i see a tabletop game sit down with a bunch of players and no GM and they just do stuff without anything leading them along. In fact. I've never seen it. I've seen a group of players have someone fill in as a GM, or use the GM's notes to play without him present, but theres still always someone or something leading them.

Role playing is not defined as "you have a role in the world" but you "are playing a character inside a world" And yes, this is why the line between genres and rpg's are getting smaller and smaller, with a LOT of games incorporating rpg basics such as leveling, and rpgs taking on action mechanics such as FPS gameplay.

For example

Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. RPG. FPS/TPS
Borderlands. RPG. FPS
Hellgate london. RPG. FPS/TPS
Mass Effect. RPG. TPS

My problem is the current generation of gamers, many of which who are present in this topic, who got really into bioware or bethesda's rpg's and suddenly. This is what a rpg should be, this is the only thing rpg's are. No. They aren't. There are many variations to it. WRPG, JRPG, etc etc with even further classifications such as fps rpg, action rpg, turn based rpg, strategy rpg.

I'll ask again, since when has RPG been defined by making the experience your own?

You have to realize in a video game, at the current level of technology, you are always a puppet on strings. There is no such thing as a truely immersive virtual world rpg.

EVERY SINGLE THING you do in EVERY SINGLE RPG out there atm, has been designed and written and planned and scripted ahead of time. Just because you can take time off from saving the world, to go fetch a pendant for someone for a bandit doesn't make it more of a rpg, it just is... a rpg with MORE SIDEQUESTS!

Another thing, can you "beat" any of those rpgs that you guys are promoting as rpgs without doing the main storyline? Does the game end after doing so many side quests?

If you people are going to redefine what rpgs have been for over 15 years, at least use enough common sense to not be basically saying "rpgs dont exist" since thats the consensus of this thread.

 

[Arawn.Chernobog]

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/8006/bioware-you-can-put-a-j-in-front-of-it-but-final-fantasy-13-isnt-an-rpg

Bioware's Daniel Erickson:
Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's."

I tend to agree but that's my opinion.

Wasn't it the Japanese who came UP with the first RPG's? (video game wise)

EDIT: Okay....thanks to everyone for clearing that up for me

Hahahaha... no!

The concept of Role Playing Games (both Pen and Paper and Video Game) arrived from the West first, their main concept was "making choices" that would change the outcome of your story, see: The ye Olde titles that worked with no graphics and just test and each line you wrote was a decision you'd take facing an X problem.

And I have to agree with BioWare, JRPGs are NOT RPGs, doesn't mean they aren't fun.

 

[Akalistos]

Before i get into this arguement, let me ask you. Who the heck suddenly defined rpg's as "your playing yourself in your own story". Honestly who? I've never seen this classified as that before. And frankly there doesn't exist a rpg on the market who has this.

Oblivion, fallout, mass effect, etc etc. All boil down to. "THIS IS WHO YOU ARE, THIS IS THE STORYLINE" you can beat everyone one of those games, in a predefined ending, you can beat predefined quests given to you by a predefined npc.

You see it's a illusion of freedom and customization. If i have to play a game going from A-B-C-------Z or i can play it going A-C-D-S-Q------Z sure each play experience may be done in a different order, but your still playing the same game doing the same things in SOMEONE ELSES story.

There is not a single rpg out there right now, that is a rpg comparable to pen and paper adventuring. And even then, generally you are set in the GM's world, trying to solve his crisis, the current quest. VERY rarely do i see a tabletop game sit down with a bunch of players and no GM and they just do stuff without anything leading them along. In fact. I've never seen it. I've seen a group of players have someone fill in as a GM, or use the GM's notes to play without him present, but theres still always someone or something leading them.

Role playing is not defined as "you have a role in the world" but you "are playing a character inside a world" And yes, this is why the line between genres and rpg's are getting smaller and smaller, with a LOT of games incorporating rpg basics such as leveling, and rpgs taking on action mechanics such as FPS gameplay.

For example

Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. RPG. FPS/TPS
Borderlands. RPG. FPS
Hellgate london. RPG. FPS/TPS
Mass Effect. RPG. TPS

My problem is the current generation of gamers, many of which who are present in this generation, who got really into bioware or bethesda's rpg's and suddenly. This is what a rpg should be, this is the only thing rpg's are. No. They aren't. There are many variations to it. WRPG, JRPG, etc etc with even further classifications such as fps rpg, action rpg, turn based rpg, strategy rpg.

I'll ask again, since when has RPG been defined by making the experience your own?

You have to realize in a video game, at the current level of technology, you are always a puppet on strings. There is no such thing as a truely immersive virtual world rpg.

EVERY SINGLE THING you do in EVERY SINGLE RPG out there atm, has been designed and written and planned and scripted ahead of time. Just because you can take time off from saving the world, to go fetch a pendant for someone for a bandit doesn't make it more of a rpg, it just is... a rpg with MORE SIDEQUESTS!

Another thing, can you "beat" any of those rpgs that you guys are promoting as rpgs without doing the main storyline? Does the game end after doing so many side quests?

If you people are going to redefine what rpgs have been for over 15 years, at least use enough common sense to not be basically saying "rpgs dont exist" since thats the consensus of this thread.

Good sir, you are right and i agree.

 

[beddo]

Isn't it the same case with Diablo? All the characters you can play with are already created and there are no choices to be made by the players. But it's still considered an RPG. Same with Zelda.

I don't know... I always considered a game an RPG as long as you can level up at your own pace, have an inventory stuffed full of objects, and a reasonably open world to explore. And maybe armor you can switch around that changes the way you look.

I wouldn't say that Zelda is an RPG, more an Action-Adventure game with puzzle elements.

 

[Grey_Focks]

No. Beside, if it wasn't for DLC, i wouldn't call Fallout 3 a RPG.

BioWare didn't make Fallout 3. Your thinking of Bethesda. BioWare made Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Baldur's gate, KotOR and the like. And be advised, your poor grammar and spelling, combined with your aggressive tone come off as VERY fanboyish. Really doesn't help your argument.

 

[Sewblon]

Isn't it the same case with Diablo? All the characters you can play with are already created and there are no choices to be made by the players. But it's still considered an RPG. Same with Zelda.

I don't know... I always considered a game an RPG as long as you can level up at your own pace, have an inventory stuffed full of objects, and a reasonably open world to explore. And maybe armor you can switch around that changes the way you look.

I always considered Zelda an action/adventure game, because the emphasis is more on puzzle solving than on your characters equipment or stats and you don't level up. But I agree with you about Diablo.

 

[gally912]

Serious question, how much in common does FFXIII have with say, Fallout 1+2? THOSE were RPG's.

FFXIII is a series of predefined combat encounters tied together by cutscenes. It is not an RPG.

 

[bladin]

I agree on Fallout 1/2 being great rpgs, but what makes them more of a rpg? choice? Is choosing between doing a sidequest and not doing it the sole division between the games? is it the exploration? I'll give you the fact that FFXIII is extremely linear, but does exploring make it a rpg? Does that mean if i play DnD with friends and we choose to follow the gm's campaign tightly and not go off on random adventures suddenly make it not a rpg? what are we playing now? Was it the fact that you don't get to create or name your own character? Since if i remember correctly, in both of those games, you may alter what you are, but not who you are, you are still XX from XX you may be a dick or a hero in the end but your still XX from XX

 

[Projo]

JRPGs are hardly RPGs anymore anyway. They're more of interactive books. There's no role to fill, there's no choices, no free will whatsoever. The most "option" you get is to not leave the "page" you're on immediately (grinding) or how quickly you read (better weapons/gear/etc).

Meanwhile, western RPGs, Bioware's included, allow for more opportunity. There's typically a custom character with custom interactions to scenarios, which may even not exist based on your responses.