K, so, japanese game devs hate us now?

[LilithSlave]

Have you been there?

You don't have to live there to know how bad of a place Japan is to live. That's just common sense, all of the evidence points in that direction.

Also, all of the people who do live there say it is a bad place to live.

Ironic how you're trying to argue against me that "Japan is a bad country" when you yourself have been arguing that Japan is more xenophobic than the United States or so.

Again, I just like their anime and video games and want to see them do well. You know, in countries that actually respects gamers.

Why would I waste my time going to a country I know is bad to live in?

Try harder on the research. Both COD games are Activision titles. And Uncharted 3 is from Sony Computer Enterainment America.

Um.... uh, your point is....?

 

[Epona]

Have you been there?

You don't have to live there to know how bad of a place Japan is to live. That's just common sense, all of the evidence points in that direction.

Also, all of the people who do live there say it is a bad place to live.

Ironic how you're trying to argue against me that "Japan is a bad country" when you yourself have been arguing that Japan is more xenophobic than the United States or so.

Again, I just like their anime and video games and want to see them do well. You know, in countries that actually respects gamers.

Why would I waste my time going to a country I know is bad to live in?

Try harder on the research. Both COD games are Activision titles. And Uncharted 3 is from Sony Computer Enterainment America.

Um.... uh, your point is....?

I am not arguing against you, I am just asking questions.

 

[PotluckBrigand]

Because everyone bashes games like final fantasy for being about angsty teenagers fighting Satan, that's why.

You're thinking of the Shin Megami Tensei games! Satan's always in those somewhere!

 

[G-Force]

You know what though, I am sick to death of what Japan is putting out. I hate the anime art style. Sack boy is cute, Tales of characters are not. Final Fantasy still has a nice art style and nothing is ever plain in a Final Fantasy game (a sword has to bave some weird attachments or designs), that is what I like coming out of Japan but it seems that much of what we get is just more anime because it's easier to draw cartoon frames than it is to make Final Fantasy type graphics. So why am I saying all this? Maybe that's one reason sales are down. Think about it, if western devs made games in a Disney animated style, it would get old really fast to those who don't love Disney.

These same critiques can be aimmed right at American games as well. How many times are we going to go back to having medivial fantasy be the backgrop for RPGs or place as space soldiers or modern day soldiers shooting things with the same type of explosive, assult rifels, shotguns, sniper rifels and pistols we've seen before. Usually everything in American games is "serious and grim" with its protagonist being gloomy individuals or faceless characters in a gloomy world.

Is this bad, course not a good game is a good game. It's just the reason why I play Japanese games is that they are not afraid to go full out crazy and absurd while at the time playing everything with a straight face making it even more sillry. Suda 51 comes to mind as a great example of using the anime style to create games with unique graphics dripping with social commentary, black humor and style all under a heavy layer of voilence that becomes comical. Variety is the spice of life, sometimes I want to be a stoic hero, other times I just want to do air combos with a huge sword while german suplexing mechs in armor. If we lose Japanese games we lose a whole realm of choices.

 

[Halo Fanboy]

It's the american branch for Bamco, Square, Nintendo ect. That are making these decisions not Japan. Japan doesn't hate us as far as devs go either, most developers in Japan that I've seen in interviews are starting to realize that western games are superior, it's just the general public that lacks interest in western games compared to their own games.

Japanese don't make enough big budget games for western audiences. Capcom, Konami and Square have tried their best to extremely lukeworm results. That's one big reason the western public doesn't like Japanese games.

Edit: Nintendo is the exception.

 

[Saladfork]

A pity.

I have absolutely no love for the JRPG genre but many other Japanese games are quite good. I'm still pissed off that they aren't releasing Ace Attourney Investigations 2 over here, especially since now I have to download it so I can use a fan translation patch (when one finally comes out).

 

[Dansen]

Its a shame really, the Japanese make a lot of interesting games, games that I won't be able to play. Something I've also noticed is that Japanese developers really favor the PS3, which also sucks because I have a 360. I'm really interested in The Last Guardian but alas I won't be able to play it because it is a PS3 exclusive. I'm just glad that I was able to play Dark Souls, I love that game so much.

BTW when is that Zone of the Enders HD remake supposed to come out?

 

[Condiments]

I hate the anime art style.

Well, I love it.

I became a fan of anime when I was a small kid because I enjoyed the art style in video games I played back then. And I go back to playing anime games a lot of times, because I want to play an anime for a change, instead of watching it(non-interactive media of any kind, gets boring after a while). And there's hardly a way for me to get sick of anime or particularly Japanese influenced games because there's less of them being made anymore. Or at least ported to West. Because there's not enough of an industry for it anymore, the West has started to take it's own and expel Eastern influences in one of the few global media that had an Eastern influence.

I think for Japanese games to retain more international appeal that have to let go of the "anime look". Not entirely mind you, just enough so I don't feel like I'm interacting with one on a videogame console. Games like the mario and zelda series retain their vibrant color schemes without devolving into anime tropes. Nothing is inherently wrong with anime games, but you can't blame people not enjoying it as much you.

Come to think of it, most JRPGs on the PS1 in their heyday employed some anime characteristics but had their own artstyles. Maybe the reason they didn't look like full blown anime was due to technical limitations at the time, but I don't think that is the case. It wasn't really until FFXIII that the series went full blown j-pop anime. I just don't that too appealing anymore. I want more things like Vagrant story, chrono cross/trigger, FF6/7/8/9....

I'd rather see a game employ its own artstyle than rely on cultural stereotypes. Same goes with WRPGs abusing the ye ol europe setting.

 

[Gatx]

Maybe they read all those Western articles about how irrelevant they are and decided "Fine. We're irrelevant. Screw all y'all."

Huh. I'd forgotten about those. But come on where does that leave me? I actually prefer their game development style and now I don't have much to look forward to. x_x

You are left with Atlus and Aksys. Seriously, I've admired Aksys ever since they brought Fate/Unlimited Codes over to the US (first and only game purchased over PSN, not counting the Dissida 012 demo), and my mind was totally blown when they released Fate/Extra, plus they're taking a big chance with Hakuoki, a subset of a uniquely Japanese style of game.

But also, if you think about it, Dragon Quest isn't really as popular in America as it is in Japan, and they rarely release anything that didn't tie into an existing IP in America for years, except maybe "The World Ends With You" but I think it's at least partially carried by its aesthetic resemblance to Kingdom Hearts.

As for Tales, well, you'll have to take that up with Bandai Namco specifically. They haven't released any non-"mothership" Tales game in the US since that Symphonia sequel, and before you get ahead yourself with Xillia, Graces is barely making its way here so it'll probably be a while before you ever hear anything about Xillia.

You know what though, I am sick to death of what Japan is putting out. I hate the anime art style. Sack boy is cute, Tales of characters are not. Final Fantasy still has a nice art style and nothing is ever plain in a Final Fantasy game (a sword has to bave some weird attachments or designs), that is what I like coming out of Japan but it seems that much of what we get is just more anime because it's easier to draw cartoon frames than it is to make Final Fantasy type graphics. So why am I saying all this? Maybe that's one reason sales are down. Think about it, if western devs made games in a Disney animated style, it would get old really fast to those who don't love Disney.

Western devs DO make games in one similar style: Call of Duty, Modern Warfare, Rainbow Six, etc. are all similar aesthetically - realistic, modern, military shooters, and I would wager that that also gets old really fast to those who don't like the realistic look in their videogames. Besides it's not like Japanese devs ONLY make games with anime visuals: Ace Combat, Resident Evil (arguable), Armored Core. Even Professor Layton strays from the Western understanding of what "anime" should look like.

 

[ResonanceSD]

What's going on lately? Japan's support for the overseas market is dwindling, lately. Is this how it's going to be from now on?

I was really looking forward to Tales of Xillia back when I'd first heard about it around a year or two ago, but they don't seem to actually be planning on releasing it here, despite it being out and outselling Final Fantasy in Japan a long time ago!

Also, they completed Tales of Vesperia with all the characters and stuff, but they never brought it here.

It reminds me of the phoenix wright series. Already there are two entries to the series that aren't being brought here.

Square seemingly rarely brings things that aren't Final Fantasy here from Japan anymore. Things like Dragon Quest or Blood of Bahamut or Sigma Harmonics...

What gives? :|

Watch the "when fans don't show up" video. That has an excellent point to make. Western audiences didn't embrace Japan for games that they expected the west to love, so now they don't bother taking the risk.

 

[Amethyst Wind]

They haven't changed fast enough. Quite frankly there are too many reoccurring themes in terms of characters in Japanese games. One of the reasons I traded in Soul Calibur 5 after owning it for less than a week was the new characters. I've seen them all before in other Japanese games and anime. They are cliche and annoying. I want some variety.

Japanese media can be very good, but for the most part they follow the same pattern and it ends up repetitive.

Seriously, did anybody like Xiba?

 

[oZode]

Western devs DO make games in one similar style: Call of Duty, Modern Warfare, Rainbow Six, etc. are all similar aesthetically - realistic, modern, military shooters, and I would wager that that also gets old really fast to those who don't like the realistic look in their videogames. Besides it's not like Japanese devs ONLY make games with anime visuals: Ace Combat, Resident Evil (arguable), Armored Core. Even Professor Layton strays from the Western understanding of what "anime" should look like.

I like to think that military shooters are america's equivalent of the ever irritable JRPG. You know, that one game type only the country that makes them likes (well, usually).

I don't see what the jabberwocking is about, as these games usually sell well or at least okay in america despite the sizable hatedoms and if they truly don't want to port their games, it is on them.

To use 'the westerns are xenophobic' makes no sense because then how is nintendo one of the most popular game corporations out there? Heck the only western console I can think of is the Xbox 360.

I find it hard to believe what some bloggers say get to the developers of japanese games to the point where they decide to not do an overseas port to one of the biggest consumer markets there is.

 

[Strain42]

It reminds me of the phoenix wright series. Already there are two entries to the series that aren't being brought here.

Ok

A) Which 2? I only know of AAI2 not being brought here and

B) AAI2 not being brought here is because Capcom USA hates us, not because the Japanese dev hates us now. On the contrary, Shu Takumi LOVES the western fans of the series. He thinks we're more devoted to the series than the Japanese fans. He's said on more than one occasion how impressed he was at stuff we've done to show our love.

 

[daveman247]

Theres just not the market for it in the west. The cultures just dont mix well, the things they like we dont so much and vice versa. They are not going to send games over here if they will not sell.

Plus the whole anime thing... yeah... not a fan of that. (pokemon is the exception).

Also, some things in japenese game design just do not make sense to western gamers, i cant think of any off the top of my head. But there were definitley times in japenese games when i just thought, "why the hell did they put this in here".

 

[Atmos Duality]

Simple: They lost their HUGE hold over western markets. Wasting money on translation and publishing fees for a niche' market just isn't worth it in the long run for them.

JRPGs and brawlers just fell out of favor for one, but compounding that is the rise of the now-monolithic FPS; a genre that isn't as popular with Japanese developers (the examples I'm thinking of for Japanese FPSes are very...bad) as western developers.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

What's so inherently childish about that? What's so inherently childish about the Japanese game development philosophy?

Nothing. It's just something WRPG fans say when something triggers the "Us Vs. Them" gland rattling around in their heads. They play up the "Dark grittiness" of their own boring genre and decry colorful characters and fun, not-gloomily-orchestral music as "childish."

Gods fuckin' forbid people enjoy different things on this rock.

Haha, truth. In general I've seen much more "mature" topics tackled by JRPGs, if you define "mature" as "related to things mature individuals do in the real world." As Shia-Neko-Chan said, Ace Attorney is about struggling against unjust convictions in a legal system designed to create them. Or take Recettear, which I'm currently playing: sure, it's presented in about the most cutesy way imaginable, but it's actually about a child who is abandoned by her father and slapped with escalating debt. Instead of joining #OccupySymphonia, she opens a small business and has to quickly learn how to attract a loyal customer base, maximize ROI, and so on. So yeah, actual content of good JRPGs is easily as mature as the cream of the WRPG crop.

All it needs is something to boost it's rating to M no matter how hard it takes. For example with Recettear, the kid will have to deal with the cutthroat merchant warfare that is quite notorious during the Hansa Period which will make the Industrial Revolution look like a friendly marketplace. A couple of merchants offer to ease her father's debt if she complies to their rather oppressive terms and if she doesn't. They respond by wrecking havoc on her and even threaten to kidnap her and her friends and sell them off to slavers to settle the issue Reputation be damned. Cue political intrigue and such, that is what it will make it even more popular.

And an original example will be Valkyrie Profile, already quite a dark fantasy JRPG. All it needed was a couple of rape backstories and even a scene where you see Leazard performing the equivalent of necrophilia as he "tests" a bunch of Homoculus he made in an orgy or at least heavily imply it.

Look at Atlus and FromSoftware, by playing into the M rating, they got better rating than they would get if it was a T Rated game.

And a note Eroge =/= Console games.

 

[lapan]

Simple: They lost their HUGE hold over western markets. Wasting money on translation and publishing fees for a niche' market just isn't worth it in the long run for them.

But many of the games the don't localize anymore sold many more copies overseas than in Japan.

They haven't changed fast enough. Quite frankly there are too many reoccurring themes in terms of characters in Japanese games. One of the reasons I traded in Soul Calibur 5 after owning it for less than a week was the new characters. I've seen them all before in other Japanese games and anime. They are cliche and annoying. I want some variety.

Japanese media can be very good, but for the most part they follow the same pattern and it ends up repetitive.

Seriously, did anybody like Xiba?

Same is true for western games. Military shooters and many WRPGs are guilty of the same thing. Ever noticed how every single Bioware game follows the same formula for example?

 

[Amethyst Wind]

Simple: They lost their HUGE hold over western markets. Wasting money on translation and publishing fees for a niche' market just isn't worth it in the long run for them.

But many of the games the don't localize anymore sold many more copies overseas than in Japan.

They haven't changed fast enough. Quite frankly there are too many reoccurring themes in terms of characters in Japanese games. One of the reasons I traded in Soul Calibur 5 after owning it for less than a week was the new characters. I've seen them all before in other Japanese games and anime. They are cliche and annoying. I want some variety.

Japanese media can be very good, but for the most part they follow the same pattern and it ends up repetitive.

Seriously, did anybody like Xiba?

Same is true for western games. Military shooters and many WRPGs are guilty of the same thing. Ever noticed how every single Bioware game follows the same formula for example?

I'm not so sure that's the case. I've sampled two different Bioware game series' and thoroughly liked one while really disliking the other. I'd say that comparing the two you wouldn't find the exact same character setup in both and the writers do a better job of characterisation. However what I'm finding with Japanese media is that for the most part they start with the same personality type and dump them into a piece of work with no attempt to change them to fit, whereas Bioware will do a better job of having the characters adapt their personalities to the world.

Not to say that there isn't western media with similarity problems, this being one of the reasons I don't play shooters for the most part (only Gears) however I'd say the percentage of Japanese stories that play out the same because of stock characters is higher. I've watched enough anime and played enough JRPGs for this to convince me. I see laziness in Japanese anime writing simply because these characters pop up so often in the medium-bad works.

You say Bioware follows a set formula, I say anime and JRPGs overall follow a set formula and those that don't are usually the ones that are better received. Better received but still swimming in an ocean of their mediocre breathren.

It could be more variety or it could simply be better writing, but I don't go into a Bioware game thinking I'll be able to identify who'll be what from the get-go, whereas I do with anime/JRPGs/other Japanese games.

I'm going to keep saying this but who really likes Xiba from Soul Calibur 5 as a character?

 

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

It reminds me of the phoenix wright series. Already there are two entries to the series that aren't being brought here.

Ok

A) Which 2? I only know of AAI2 not being brought here and

B) AAI2 not being brought here is because Capcom USA hates us, not because the Japanese dev hates us now. On the contrary, Shu Takumi LOVES the western fans of the series. He thinks we're more devoted to the series than the Japanese fans. He's said on more than one occasion how impressed he was at stuff we've done to show our love.

Actually I was pretty sure Phoenix Wright vs. Professor Layton was released in Japan already. Even still, it still hasn't actually been announced for release here, despite being announced 2 years ago. Given the current trend most of the japanese games I actually want to play, I can't help but assume it's not coming here, especially since half of it is phoenix wright and it's already pulled support for overseas with Miles Edgeworth 2.

They haven't changed fast enough. Quite frankly there are too many reoccurring themes in terms of characters in Japanese games. One of the reasons I traded in Soul Calibur 5 after owning it for less than a week was the new characters. I've seen them all before in other Japanese games and anime. They are cliche and annoying. I want some variety.

Japanese media can be very good, but for the most part they follow the same pattern and it ends up repetitive.

Seriously, did anybody like Xiba?

I can't agree with you here. It has no more recurring themes than the western market. In fact, the western market refers to recurring themes a lot more often than Japanese games.

Ok, I fail to see the difference.

Really? It's pretty easy to see the difference. One was early (and this is being generous as I'm not convinced your two examples were actually pulling from our market, since final fantasy revolutionized gaming and created a genre and secret of mana won an array of awards in america), one was after testing.

I'll elaborate.

If you fight a boss in a video game and you lose once, you just try again.

If you try every day for years with every strategy possible, you stop and never try again because you're wasting your time.

it's the same with businesses, except they watch each other for these failures and try to act on them.

If a few American ice companies tried to sell ice in Antarctica and never turned a profit for years before closing, no one else is going to try it because it wouldn't make any business sense. Word gets around quickly in the business world and people listen.

To say it's "just a cycle" is oversimplifying, I think.

We don't see very many Japanese drinks being sold here, do we? What about Coca-Cola's special soft drink flavors they only sell in Japan? Have you seen Georgia anywhere? They're not going to sell them here because they know what works and doesn't work in each market. To spend money to send Georgia to the states wouldn't make any business sense.

What about Japanese movies? There are a few, yeah, but there's no market for them here. I'm pretty sure they tried sending some flagship japanese titles here with subtitles or dubbing before, but it doesn't make any sense to try to send subtitled japanese movies here because they know it won't turn enough of a profit to justify the funding. It's not a cycle, japanese subtitled movies will never make it here and it's not even tried anymore.

Anime hasn't a place here, either. It's not a cycle, our cultures are too different for a) the dubbing companies to put more effort into dubbing anime and b) most of it to exist in places other than the funimation channel.

The thing is, now japanese game devs aren't even bothering with our market anymore and I'm not seeing how it's any different from the japanese movie industry or the anime industry.

Now, of course, some day Japanese devs might actually try our market again (perhaps after cultural changes), but it could be another 20 years down the line and I don't want to wait that long.