K, so, japanese game devs hate us now?

[Smeggs]

Could also be the recent fire of Internet and Game reconstruction.

If I were a Dev overseas hearing about SOPA and how Microsoft and the other companies were thinking of making pre-owned games incompatible with other consoles I'd not bother sending my shit over either.

What chance would some new JRPG have against "SUPERSLAUGHTERRAPEFEST III."

 

[lapan]

Simple: They lost their HUGE hold over western markets. Wasting money on translation and publishing fees for a niche' market just isn't worth it in the long run for them.

But many of the games the don't localize anymore sold many more copies overseas than in Japan.

They haven't changed fast enough. Quite frankly there are too many reoccurring themes in terms of characters in Japanese games. One of the reasons I traded in Soul Calibur 5 after owning it for less than a week was the new characters. I've seen them all before in other Japanese games and anime. They are cliche and annoying. I want some variety.

Japanese media can be very good, but for the most part they follow the same pattern and it ends up repetitive.

Seriously, did anybody like Xiba?

Same is true for western games. Military shooters and many WRPGs are guilty of the same thing. Ever noticed how every single Bioware game follows the same formula for example?

I'm not so sure that's the case. I've sampled two different Bioware game series' and thoroughly liked one while really disliking the other. I'd say that comparing the two you wouldn't find the exact same character setup in both and the writers do a better job of characterisation. However what I'm finding with Japanese media is that for the most part they start with the same personality type and dump them into a piece of work with no attempt to change them to fit, whereas Bioware will do a better job of having the characters adapt their personalities to the world.

Not to say that there isn't western media with similarity problems, this being one of the reasons I don't play shooters for the most part (only Gears) however I'd say the percentage of Japanese stories that play out the same because of stock characters is higher. I've watched enough anime and played enough JRPGs for this to convince me. I see laziness in Japanese anime writing simply because these characters pop up so often in the medium-bad works.

You say Bioware follows a set formula, I say anime and JRPGs overall follow a set formula and those that don't are usually the ones that are better received. Better received but still swimming in an ocean of their mediocre breathren.

It could be more variety or it could simply be better writing, but I don't go into a Bioware game thinking I'll be able to identify who'll be what from the get-go, whereas I do with anime/JRPGs/other Japanese games.

I'm going to keep saying this but who really likes Xiba from Soul Calibur 5 as a character?

This picture shows the Bioware cliches really well if you are interested: http://toroz.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/orig_320200_1_1257581825.png

It's hard to like any of the new Soul Calibur characters, simply because the singleplayer was so lacking that there has been no characterization except for the 2 maincharacters.

 

[Amethyst Wind]

They haven't changed fast enough. Quite frankly there are too many reoccurring themes in terms of characters in Japanese games. One of the reasons I traded in Soul Calibur 5 after owning it for less than a week was the new characters. I've seen them all before in other Japanese games and anime. They are cliche and annoying. I want some variety.

Japanese media can be very good, but for the most part they follow the same pattern and it ends up repetitive.

Seriously, did anybody like Xiba?

I can't agree with you here. It has no more recurring themes than the western market. In fact, the western market refers to recurring themes a lot more often than Japanese games.

Could you elaborate on that? I've got something of a pet peeve about people claiming anything 'in fact' and then not backing it up.

I try not to work with facts as they're slippery things, more I simply give the examples I've personally dealt with. I liked Japanese games in the past, they bore me now as I don't think they're much different on key aspects as they were 10 years ago (graphics are not key aspects). I find more enjoyment through western titles, certainly not all but at least some. I haven't really found a Japanese title in the past 2 years that I've had any kind of love for. No that's not quite fair, there were two: Bayonetta and Sonic Generations, loved them both. Apart from that, not a thing. In the same span I've enjoyed at least 7 western titles. It hasn't slipped my attention that both Bayonetta and Sonic are produced by Sega, they've caught my eye recently and appear to be the only ones. Their recent portfolio seems far more diverse than other Japanese publishers. They're ahead of the curve.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Maybe if they stopped making whiny emo protagonists I'd care.

 

[Amethyst Wind]

Simple: They lost their HUGE hold over western markets. Wasting money on translation and publishing fees for a niche' market just isn't worth it in the long run for them.

But many of the games the don't localize anymore sold many more copies overseas than in Japan.

They haven't changed fast enough. Quite frankly there are too many reoccurring themes in terms of characters in Japanese games. One of the reasons I traded in Soul Calibur 5 after owning it for less than a week was the new characters. I've seen them all before in other Japanese games and anime. They are cliche and annoying. I want some variety.

Japanese media can be very good, but for the most part they follow the same pattern and it ends up repetitive.

Seriously, did anybody like Xiba?

Same is true for western games. Military shooters and many WRPGs are guilty of the same thing. Ever noticed how every single Bioware game follows the same formula for example?

I'm not so sure that's the case. I've sampled two different Bioware game series' and thoroughly liked one while really disliking the other. I'd say that comparing the two you wouldn't find the exact same character setup in both and the writers do a better job of characterisation. However what I'm finding with Japanese media is that for the most part they start with the same personality type and dump them into a piece of work with no attempt to change them to fit, whereas Bioware will do a better job of having the characters adapt their personalities to the world.

Not to say that there isn't western media with similarity problems, this being one of the reasons I don't play shooters for the most part (only Gears) however I'd say the percentage of Japanese stories that play out the same because of stock characters is higher. I've watched enough anime and played enough JRPGs for this to convince me. I see laziness in Japanese anime writing simply because these characters pop up so often in the medium-bad works.

You say Bioware follows a set formula, I say anime and JRPGs overall follow a set formula and those that don't are usually the ones that are better received. Better received but still swimming in an ocean of their mediocre breathren.

It could be more variety or it could simply be better writing, but I don't go into a Bioware game thinking I'll be able to identify who'll be what from the get-go, whereas I do with anime/JRPGs/other Japanese games.

I'm going to keep saying this but who really likes Xiba from Soul Calibur 5 as a character?

This picture shows the Bioware cliches really well if you are interested: http://toroz.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/orig_320200_1_1257581825.png

It's hard to like any of the new Soul Calibur characters, simply because the singleplayer was so lacking that there has been no characterization except for the 2 maincharacters.

Sorry but can you try harder than throwing over-simplified table charts around as if that constitutes a full argument? I've played Mass Effect, Jade Empire and Dragon Age from that list. Why, if they're all the same, do I like Jade Empire, like Mass Effect for different reasons yet dislike Dragon Age? Surely I should like them all if they're so similar, no? Yet I don't. I tend to think that there are other variables in play here.

 

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

They haven't changed fast enough. Quite frankly there are too many reoccurring themes in terms of characters in Japanese games. One of the reasons I traded in Soul Calibur 5 after owning it for less than a week was the new characters. I've seen them all before in other Japanese games and anime. They are cliche and annoying. I want some variety.

Japanese media can be very good, but for the most part they follow the same pattern and it ends up repetitive.

Seriously, did anybody like Xiba?

I can't agree with you here. It has no more recurring themes than the western market. In fact, the western market refers to recurring themes a lot more often than Japanese games.

Could you elaborate on that? I've got something of a pet peeve about people claiming anything 'in fact' and then not backing it up.

Guns, medival times (sprinkled with things like magic, orcs, elves, and dwarves), space marines, modern warfare, muscles, aliens.

The big three are medival times, Modern Warfare, and Space Marines. edit: well, no, guns are used just as much as the big three, but, big four doesn't sound as cool.

 

[lapan]

Simple: They lost their HUGE hold over western markets. Wasting money on translation and publishing fees for a niche' market just isn't worth it in the long run for them.

But many of the games the don't localize anymore sold many more copies overseas than in Japan.

They haven't changed fast enough. Quite frankly there are too many reoccurring themes in terms of characters in Japanese games. One of the reasons I traded in Soul Calibur 5 after owning it for less than a week was the new characters. I've seen them all before in other Japanese games and anime. They are cliche and annoying. I want some variety.

Japanese media can be very good, but for the most part they follow the same pattern and it ends up repetitive.

Seriously, did anybody like Xiba?

Same is true for western games. Military shooters and many WRPGs are guilty of the same thing. Ever noticed how every single Bioware game follows the same formula for example?

I'm not so sure that's the case. I've sampled two different Bioware game series' and thoroughly liked one while really disliking the other. I'd say that comparing the two you wouldn't find the exact same character setup in both and the writers do a better job of characterisation. However what I'm finding with Japanese media is that for the most part they start with the same personality type and dump them into a piece of work with no attempt to change them to fit, whereas Bioware will do a better job of having the characters adapt their personalities to the world.

Not to say that there isn't western media with similarity problems, this being one of the reasons I don't play shooters for the most part (only Gears) however I'd say the percentage of Japanese stories that play out the same because of stock characters is higher. I've watched enough anime and played enough JRPGs for this to convince me. I see laziness in Japanese anime writing simply because these characters pop up so often in the medium-bad works.

You say Bioware follows a set formula, I say anime and JRPGs overall follow a set formula and those that don't are usually the ones that are better received. Better received but still swimming in an ocean of their mediocre breathren.

It could be more variety or it could simply be better writing, but I don't go into a Bioware game thinking I'll be able to identify who'll be what from the get-go, whereas I do with anime/JRPGs/other Japanese games.

I'm going to keep saying this but who really likes Xiba from Soul Calibur 5 as a character?

This picture shows the Bioware cliches really well if you are interested: http://toroz.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/orig_320200_1_1257581825.png

It's hard to like any of the new Soul Calibur characters, simply because the singleplayer was so lacking that there has been no characterization except for the 2 maincharacters.

Sorry but can you try harder than throwing over-simplified table charts around as if that constitutes a full argument? I've played Mass Effect, Jade Empire and Dragon Age from that list. Why, if they're all the same, do I like Jade Empire, like Mass Effect for different reasons yet dislike Dragon Age? Surely I should like them all if they're so similar, no? Yet I don't. I tend to think that there are other variables in play here.

All i'm saying is that there are in fact big similarities in the stories. Of course they are not exactly the same, but some amount of story recycling is undenyable here.

 

[Tiswas]

Is this west as in everything out of Japan? or West as in America? Because they're both entirely different. for years it seemed europe got screwed over when it came to games but these days. Xenoblade, Last Story, Pandora's Tower, One Piece Games, Tales Of Abyss/Graces and a few others I'm probably forgetting are coming over here and not America.

 

[Amethyst Wind]

They haven't changed fast enough. Quite frankly there are too many reoccurring themes in terms of characters in Japanese games. One of the reasons I traded in Soul Calibur 5 after owning it for less than a week was the new characters. I've seen them all before in other Japanese games and anime. They are cliche and annoying. I want some variety.

Japanese media can be very good, but for the most part they follow the same pattern and it ends up repetitive.

Seriously, did anybody like Xiba?

I can't agree with you here. It has no more recurring themes than the western market. In fact, the western market refers to recurring themes a lot more often than Japanese games.

Could you elaborate on that? I've got something of a pet peeve about people claiming anything 'in fact' and then not backing it up.

Guns, medival times (sprinkled with things like magic, orcs, elves, and dwarves), space marines, modern warfare, muscles, aliens.

The big three are medival times, Modern Warfare, and Space Marines. edit: well, no, guns are used just as much as the big three, but, big four doesn't sound as cool.

Swords, modern times (sprinkles with things like spirit energy, demons, spirits and monsters), teenagers, mecha warfare, overly beautified bodies, aliens.

The big three are modern times, future/mecha warfare and teenage heroes. edit: well, no, swords are used just as much as the big three, but, big four doesn't sound as cool.

 

[Amethyst Wind]

Simple: They lost their HUGE hold over western markets. Wasting money on translation and publishing fees for a niche' market just isn't worth it in the long run for them.

But many of the games the don't localize anymore sold many more copies overseas than in Japan.

They haven't changed fast enough. Quite frankly there are too many reoccurring themes in terms of characters in Japanese games. One of the reasons I traded in Soul Calibur 5 after owning it for less than a week was the new characters. I've seen them all before in other Japanese games and anime. They are cliche and annoying. I want some variety.

Japanese media can be very good, but for the most part they follow the same pattern and it ends up repetitive.

Seriously, did anybody like Xiba?

Same is true for western games. Military shooters and many WRPGs are guilty of the same thing. Ever noticed how every single Bioware game follows the same formula for example?

I'm not so sure that's the case. I've sampled two different Bioware game series' and thoroughly liked one while really disliking the other. I'd say that comparing the two you wouldn't find the exact same character setup in both and the writers do a better job of characterisation. However what I'm finding with Japanese media is that for the most part they start with the same personality type and dump them into a piece of work with no attempt to change them to fit, whereas Bioware will do a better job of having the characters adapt their personalities to the world.

Not to say that there isn't western media with similarity problems, this being one of the reasons I don't play shooters for the most part (only Gears) however I'd say the percentage of Japanese stories that play out the same because of stock characters is higher. I've watched enough anime and played enough JRPGs for this to convince me. I see laziness in Japanese anime writing simply because these characters pop up so often in the medium-bad works.

You say Bioware follows a set formula, I say anime and JRPGs overall follow a set formula and those that don't are usually the ones that are better received. Better received but still swimming in an ocean of their mediocre breathren.

It could be more variety or it could simply be better writing, but I don't go into a Bioware game thinking I'll be able to identify who'll be what from the get-go, whereas I do with anime/JRPGs/other Japanese games.

I'm going to keep saying this but who really likes Xiba from Soul Calibur 5 as a character?

This picture shows the Bioware cliches really well if you are interested: http://toroz.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/orig_320200_1_1257581825.png

It's hard to like any of the new Soul Calibur characters, simply because the singleplayer was so lacking that there has been no characterization except for the 2 maincharacters.

Sorry but can you try harder than throwing over-simplified table charts around as if that constitutes a full argument? I've played Mass Effect, Jade Empire and Dragon Age from that list. Why, if they're all the same, do I like Jade Empire, like Mass Effect for different reasons yet dislike Dragon Age? Surely I should like them all if they're so similar, no? Yet I don't. I tend to think that there are other variables in play here.

All i'm saying is that there are in fact big similarities in the stories. Of course they are not exactly the same, but some amount of story recycling is undenyable here.

Yet I can still like Mass Effect and Jade Empire when they're so similar whereas I really struggle to like Japanese titles because they're so similar to the countless others I've seen before. The problems are more glaring in Japanese media.

 

[lRookiel]

Meh, I hate JRPG's so good riddance is all I can say, sorry :3

 

[BreakfastMan]

Don't know where you get the idea that they didn't translate Tales of Vesperia. I live in 'Merica, and have a copy of the game, fully translated and fully-voiced sitting on my game shelf right now. :/

Anyway... I do think it is sad that we don't get nearly as many good JRPGs as we did in the last 3 or so generations. I think it might have something to do with the fact that those types of games are just not as profitable anymore (Shooters pretty much took over the market most aimed for). No profit, no localization. Sad, but true. We just need to cherish the rare good JRPGs we do get.

 

[Zay-el]

snip

To be a bit of a cynic, perhaps the Tales games are really not one of the best examples to throw around, considering many of their games go for one console, only to have an expanded version released on a DIFFERENT console within less than 2 years. I'm sorry, but the less I see of that kind of method, the better.

 

[hedges1001]

to be fair in europe we at best get limited releases of tales games and the first DQ we got was 8 on ps2. its not less games coming out its that we know about all the games coming out.

 

[lapan]

Yet I can still like Mass Effect and Jade Empire when they're so similar whereas I really struggle to like Japanese titles because they're so similar to the countless others I've seen before. The problems are more glaring in Japanese media.

I'd say your own opinion plays a big part in there too.
Yes, i fully agree that "moe/cute" charactertypes are too overused in Japan. This comes from the manga/anime market mostly and the fact that it sells extremly well to that market. Still, i wouldn't wanna miss great titles like Disgaea getting international releases.

 

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

They haven't changed fast enough. Quite frankly there are too many reoccurring themes in terms of characters in Japanese games. One of the reasons I traded in Soul Calibur 5 after owning it for less than a week was the new characters. I've seen them all before in other Japanese games and anime. They are cliche and annoying. I want some variety.

Japanese media can be very good, but for the most part they follow the same pattern and it ends up repetitive.

Seriously, did anybody like Xiba?

I can't agree with you here. It has no more recurring themes than the western market. In fact, the western market refers to recurring themes a lot more often than Japanese games.

Could you elaborate on that? I've got something of a pet peeve about people claiming anything 'in fact' and then not backing it up.

Guns, medival times (sprinkled with things like magic, orcs, elves, and dwarves), space marines, modern warfare, muscles, aliens.

The big three are medival times, Modern Warfare, and Space Marines. edit: well, no, guns are used just as much as the big three, but, big four doesn't sound as cool.

Swords, modern times (sprinkles with things like spirit energy, demons, spirits and monsters), teenagers, mecha warfare, overly beautified bodies, aliens.

The big three are modern times, future/mecha warfare and teenage heroes. edit: well, no, swords are used just as much as the big three, but, big four doesn't sound as cool.

Nice try.

Mecha warfare is rarely used these days in anime or in japanese video games. That's a stereotype.

The times in japanese games vary a lot, actually, between a stylized past, modern, or future. A lot of them don't actually have a discernable time period. Modern times is probably used the least often, which is why Final Fantasy versus XIII is very interesting to me. It's an honest attempt to realize final fantasy in modern times.

Swords in japanese gaming isn't used nearly as much as guns in western. Just saying. The point isn't that the tropes I'm talking about are used at all, just that western uses common tropes more.

Of course, I'm finding it kind of funny that you chose to try to refute my point in this way rather than defend your implication that western games don't follow a set of tropes like japan does, when you're trying to say why Japanese games don't do well here. In fact, what your post implies now is that they both do it equally.

To be a bit of a cynic, perhaps the Tales games are really not one of the best examples to throw around, considering many of their games go for one console, only to have an expanded version released on a DIFFERENT console within less than 2 years. I'm sorry, but the less I see of that kind of method, the better.

Well, yeah, but even still. I like the Tales games so it really impacts me when I look forward to a new one and find out suddenly that they're not releasing it here.

 

[joshuaayt]

"Now"? Did I fall in to a coma and miss a short period in which Japanese companies DIDN'T hate Western gamers? That must have been a rad time.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Well the problem isn't with shooters but rather the unwillingness to do Dark Fantasy for anyone not named Atlus/Fromsoftware. We don't mind Japan, we just find them too childish, the WRPG scene has pretty abandoned the notion their stuff is for kids and just go for adult content. Japan needs to do that if it wants the love of the western crowd.

What do you mean by that, though? The Japanese market is full of adult-content!

It's just not all about European medival times and dragon slaying or Space Marines who shoot lasers or Modern Warfare between the US and the Russians, which are all scenarios that people in the US seem to equate with mature content all the time.

Their stuff is something all their own with designed worlds and lore, stylish, yet varied characters (usually), and artful worlds with adult issues about the characters themselves, the situations they encounter, and the personal demons they usually have to battle within themselves.

Just because Phoenix Wright is rated teen, that doesn't mean that's for children. It's a game about a defense attourney who needs to defend people against wrongful accusations of murder and usually must find the (usually insane) murderer himself.

What's so inherently childish about that? What's so inherently childish about the Japanese game development philosophy?

I think that there needs to be more games like Asura's Wrath and less games like F.F. More serious games like Metriod Prime(on Gamecube) and less Mario games. That is what people mean by mature, I think

 

[zerobudgetgamer]

OK, reading as much as I could, I notice a lot of people keep talking about "anime" styles in games and how much they hate them. "Anime" this, "Anime" that, but no one's really going into great detail. Anime has a lot of different styles to it, it's not all "Big-Eyed with Rainbow-Colored Hairstyles jutting out at all ends"; Hell, I just described My Little Pony, which we know for a fact is NOT anime. No, the only reason why Anime has been "homogenized" or "is all the same" is because too many people try to lump it all together like that. While I can't speak for how easy it is to live there, Japan seems to have accepted one thing the West can't seem to, that animation doesn't have to be just for kids. There are several people who could go into detail with that far better than I, but I just had to get that out there, and I can't deny that it isn't a factor in the lack of localization.

Really, I see two major factors going into it. The first, obviously, is the supposed general consensus towards Anime, and the negative approach many of the more vocal in this country seem to give it. Whether or not that really IS the consensus is another matter entirely. While I can't seem to find it anymore, I recall seeing a small list of localized games over the last couple years that sold in the U.S. anywhere from 1.5-3x the amount sold in Japan. I don't exactly know how to pull up this specific type of information outside of going to every last game made in the last few years and pulling up their global sales records, but I'll just try to be brief and say the interest is arguably here.

The second problem I see is the Anime-favoring side of the US's general methods for acquiring it. It's no big secret most Anime-lovers prefer subs, and only a very small percentage of people have actually stuck their necks out from their Internet-laden caves to purchase box sets of some of their favorite shows. I think this, more than anything else, is what inevitably hinders a lot of localization. The three most popular things that are localized from Japan are Anime, Manga, and Games, and when 2 out of 3 are barely being bought up (when they can be fansubbed, released the same day as they were shown in Japan, and viewed off the Internet for free) it becomes a strong disincentive for companies to burn the cash.