Poll: Rushing and you

[therookie95]

Rushing is a tactic that is necssisary to the zerg, BUT is as risky as it is benefical. A good early rush is one that is used more as a scouting run and to slow down the opponents economy while you tech and build up back at your base, using the chaos in the opponents base to buy you the time of building with little chance of a counter, while you send more powerful units you've produced. Also attacking from differing angles to continue harrassing and causing confussion in his base, all while preventing him from lanching his own assault or expanding. This gives you a chance to expand, tech and continue to trap the opponent while your swarms get bigger and bigger until the waves crush the defenses the opponent has set up or the opponents resources run dry and there units simply run out.
I do see the point you are making with people who just spawn zerglings continuously until the game ends and yes I do agree with you that doing that does take the fun out of the game.
I don't know as much about the zealot rush though, when I play against the toss, I don't give them that opportunity

 

[Freshman]

Hm gonna ask a related question here - does anyone know how the hell you get through photon cannons massed at their ramp as zerg? Burrowed roaches don't work, the bloody overpowered things are detectors, banelings don't work cause you'd need 20 of them just to get 1 close enough to hit the damn things. Mass air doesn't work because they know that's the only way you can get past their cannons and build anti air. So any tactic that's not those three?

you set all your forces at the choke before his cannons. now he has, at best, 1 expansion. you keep sending forces to that choke,send scouts to all expansions and spend the rest of your money expanding all over the map. you basically starve him out. just gotta watch for him teching up to air and counter attacking, but you have access to all the mines and gas in the world, and he only has about 10,000 of each. (also gotta watch for colossus climbing out of the base, and make sure you got detectors at the choke, as well as a counter attack force for air units or rogue transports

 

[therookie95]

Hm gonna ask a related question here - does anyone know how the hell you get through photon cannons massed at their ramp as zerg? Burrowed roaches don't work, the bloody overpowered things are detectors, banelings don't work cause you'd need 20 of them just to get 1 close enough to hit the damn things. Mass air doesn't work because they know that's the only way you can get past their cannons and build anti air. So any tactic that's not those three?

In that case you need to use your units to keep them from expanding while you set up another resource node or two, your best bet is to try to attack from multiple locations with air or sneak an overseer to an unoccupied
spot in the base and establish a nydus worm and hit the economy, otherwise, broodlords with corrupters and hydralisks cover them, with an infestor or two thrown in for good measure in case of carrier or voidrays or mothership. You won't win with tier 1 tech.

 

[Pearwood]

Hm I've always been kind of weary letting games vs protoss drag too long in case I end up getting about 20 carriers up my arse but yeah I suppose that is the only way to beat them.

Edit - I also suppose this is unlikely if I map control like you're suggesting. But it's not like there are many cannons usually, just 5 or 6 around the ramp reinforced with zealots and stalkers so it's hardly a big drain on the 'tosser's economy. I guess I'll try it, I can always build my own towers around his nat.

 

[MP3zilla]

I personally get a great thrill out of rushing people like you simply because it pisses you off. Call it a cheap twisted thrill. I'm the sniper that camps with a ton of c4 around the door, or around that car that you just took cover behind. Or the guy that runs around with a rocket launcher jumping into the air, shooting you in your knee caps. Or that uses my grenade launcher, or NubeTube, from across the map simply because I know how high to aim. I can appreciate fine and carefully crafted strategy. But if I know something pisses you off and works effectively, I will always do it until either i get bored(unlikely with your rage), or until a little of you dies inside and you give up gaming forever. Thank You. It's just a game ment for fun, nothing more.

 

[The Austin]

I don't understand people who ***** about rushing.
Do you honestly expect me to divide my forces and all that? No! I'm just going to rush the shit out of you, and you are going to like it!

I wonder, have you ever had "fun" playing a game, and not the "fun" you think you are having from winning... That is satisfaction, a very different feeling.

Excuse me?

What exactly are you suggesting, because it sure as hell sounds like your insulting me.

 

[mrdude2010]

in warcraft 3 it's basically all everyone ever does =/


you say it gives you a variety of ways to kill the other person, and rushing is included in that... i wouldn't quite compare it to tac knifing more like running around with the UMP 45 marathon lightweight (or cold blooded) and ninja... annoying but not quite dangerous enough to break the game... i usually don't rush but i usually don't mind it since if you and your team manage to repel it it gives you a huge edge since they have no units and have to rebuild their economy

when i choose to play terran (which i do in team games) i hate rushers because i basically tech to thors, which takes 6-7 minutes so if they send a zerg rush early i have to scramble to defend it and it sets everything back 5 minutes


if you really want the ultimate no rush strategy game go play the total war series those have fabulous strategic battles

 

[Zhukov]

So... you're condemning the tactic as "stupid" while at the same time complaining about losing to that same tactic?

 

[Swarley]

Hm gonna ask a related question here - does anyone know how the hell you get through photon cannons massed at their ramp as zerg? Burrowed roaches don't work, the bloody overpowered things are detectors, banelings don't work cause you'd need 20 of them just to get 1 close enough to hit the damn things. Mass air doesn't work because they know that's the only way you can get past their cannons and build anti air. So any tactic that's not those three?

If they turtle up in their base that hard it gives you free map control, so just expand hard and tech quickly to broodlords, then mess up their shit.

 

[Ewyx]

Axe/chariot rush ftw...

Oh wait, wrong game.

 

[Grigori361]

I am opposed to rushing because it makes the fight more like a small battle than the epic battles that i want in an RTS. I want thousands of soilders that litter the battle field with the bodies of thier enemies.

I want a real war when I play. Sadly, we're only allowed 200 units. I think there should be a game type where you can have up to 500 or something. Just to see the big hoedown of troops, standing in line from east to west. That is the test of a true commander.

See the original supreme commander it has that 500 unit cap you wanted. And some of those mofos are BIG.

 

[742]

i like rushes in SC2, it keeps the pressure on, keeps the early game tense, emphasizes intelligence gathering, and occasionally ill do it myself

that being said, people who complain about rushing constantly without learning how to counter it are scrubs. yes, sometimes even the best players lose to a rush, but they can also lose to a well executed fast expo or midgame play.

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

Legitimate strategy, but it's connected to what was my true beef with original Starcraft, the shift from importance of unit choice and tactics to how fast one's twitch reflexes are.

In my experience between veteran-level players, the ranged unit that strikes first will always win. The first-striker can simply pull back their units to avoid the counterattack (I believe the term is called 'kiting' and is prevalent in WoW as well, on a smaller scale). With a microed kite rush, your workers are constantly in danger and losing even one or two can cost you the game. This is not so much a strategy game as a quick-draw duel where your opponent gets multiple tries.

Lacking the twitch reflexes to do either of these things, I was gradually forced out of the Battlenet scene, blacklisted and isolated from every league or group. So I might be just a tad biased. Just saying.

 

[InnerRebellion]

I love Age of Empires III. My friend rushes me all the time. I turtle (I believe that's the term for building up a very good defense) but he's always attacking as I'm constructing my defenses. I usually keep calm and send a few ships around to bombard his base, but it gets annoying seeing waves and waves of weak units attack my workers.

 

[Canid117]

I am opposed to rushing because it makes the fight more like a small battle than the epic battles that i want in an RTS. I want thousands of soilders that litter the battle field with the bodies of thier enemies.

Then the first Supreme Commander is the game for you good sir.

Hm gonna ask a related question here - does anyone know how the hell you get through photon cannons massed at their ramp as zerg? Burrowed roaches don't work, the bloody overpowered things are detectors, banelings don't work cause you'd need 20 of them just to get 1 close enough to hit the damn things. Mass air doesn't work because they know that's the only way you can get past their cannons and build anti air. So any tactic that's not those three?

Use overlords to fly around their cannons if you can and dump a couple of zerglings into their workers. You wont destroy the base but you will keep his economy bleeding enough until you can drop some heavier units in. Or do what the guy above said and control the map. Then kill their pylons with brood lords.

 

[-Samurai-]

I really never saw the point. Sure, you could win in a few minutes, but that's boring.

I'd rather lose a long, drawn out battle than win one that only took 3 minutes.

This is why I don't play any RTS games with strangers online. I only play with people I know. We gather, build, then go to war. Sure, the games can last 12-16 hours, but it's more enjoyable to me than a 3 minute match ending in victory.

Every time we learn something new about the other persons tactics and strategy, and every game is different because of it.

 

[Xero Scythe]

I don't see it as a barbaric tactic, I see it as an extremely effective but more expensive scouting technique. If it works then great, I win but if it doesn't I get to see what you're building and set you back in resources so much you can't afford to just change strategy on the spot. Even in the event of a total failure I see in your base and can counter what I think you'll build based on what I see.

Really? I sorta see it akin to a blitz in football. It's more like a "Tackle the fucker before he gets a pass off or you're screwed" idea. I think it's smart as a last ditch effort. It's also psychological, as in "Holy crap that's a big army!!!" Just look at history- the man who can make his opponent believe the man is screwed usually wins. Thermopayle doesn't count, because those guys were just military badasses.

One technique I always love is building a large sized army and hiding them off to the side. then, I send half in to get obliterated. Enemy thinks "Hah, I destroyed his rush!" Then goes to obliterate what little base I have. Too bad for him I spent a while building up my base. He gets attacked there, I send the rest of the army to wipe out his base when the soldiers are away (Stole this from history. Most of my tactics are just modified versions of Alexander and whatnot. Guy was a genius.) and then pincer what's left into obliteration. I always wondered though, does that actually count as a rush or just a clever feint?

 

[Catalyst6]

Don't take this the wrong way, I am totally not a good player at RTS games competively either, my actions per second (or whatever the unit of measurement is) is pitiful. It hardly matters what my strategy is because the other guy is a bind king or prince or magistrate or ... I don't care, I just suck at whipping together a base in a few seconds and rolling out units to defend, rush, or gather. So you know what I realized and I get the impression from the tid bits I pulled out of your Original Post?

You probably would have more fun sticking to either single player RTS or alternatively: go play Turn Based Strategy single or multiplayer. Then you really will be playing "Exploding Chess", since RTS is only comparable to chess if both chess players are taking their turns at the exact same time trying to move pieces around the board quicker than the other guy - what are you willing to bet chess games like that end up with one of the players going "Screw this!" and rage quiting as he slaps the board and pieces off the table after you both basicly push crap across the squares in one big two handed shove of "pwnage"?

In real time and real life, its just as important to quick as it is to be smart, strong, durable, accurate, efficient and profitable but for the rest of us, turn based is probably where its at. Just sayin', the Quick and the Dead and stuff.

I feel as though I should be insulted. I'll just leave that facet alone.

And the Exploding Chess thing was a joke, it's nowhere near a perfect metaphor.

I think that I have a misplaced ideal of honor among theives in the Starcraft community. An idea that players shouldn't do cheap crap that works very rarely simply because it's cheap. Unfortunately, it's that exact thing, "misplaced". It's not the gentleman's game of intellect and cunning that I had expected. Such is life, I suppose.

 

[blankedboy]

I usually send a 2-zergling scout to check out a base, it's only a rush once you have at least 6 units. It's a pathetically cheap strategy and proves that the user has little to no skill.

 

[Adventurer2626]

My opinion: It's perfectly reasonable to be a douche to the computer. It deserves it more often than not.

Against other players: I find it to be not only annoying but when a game starts being about how to kill as many as fast as possible then I stop playing. It's the "build-of-the-day" "strat-of-the-day." They don't care about fair play or sportsmanship; just care about their rank and status. Rushing is okay in moderation, especially between friends as a joke or "to get them back," but I wouldn't or would feel extremely guilty doing it to a stranger.