No it isn't.Cheeze_Pavilion said:That's bad advice: guys should definitely worry about being fat and ugly. It matters. And it's not about visual stimuli--it's about imagining tactile stimuli.BonsaiK said:This problem has been answered in the Relationship Problem Thread, which is at the following link: ----> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.117161?page=17#4191524
I will agree that women are not enticed by a specific body part the way men are, but we're talking about more than enticing a person in: we're talking about going all the way from initial interest to actual attraction. Girls looks at guys smarter and more "holistically" *at first* but once we're beyond first impression, fat and ugly is a pretty big deal breaker.
Ok, first of all, saying "leaving aside what is right and wrong" then going right ahead and stating your opinion anyways, is kind of ridiculous. It's like me saying to a random person "Leaving aside what I think of you, (by the way I think you're a fucking moron) why do you think that way". It's pretty funny, I must say. But it doesn't accomplish anything besides making your opinion seem insignificantCheeze_Pavilion said:Leaving aside whether that is right or wrong (it's wrong, of course--we just pretend it's true out of male guilt; and in fact to assert male privilege) how does that contradict what I said?President Moocow said:Nope, incorrect! For guys, a girl's looks matter more than her personality (now that doesn't mean personality is not important!). For girls, a guy's personality matters more than his looks (likewise, it doesn't mean looks don't matter, they definitely get you noticed, but most of the time girls find a guy with confidence VERY attractive even if he's not physically attractive.Cheeze_Pavilion said:There are plenty of really great people out there who do care about looks. It's fairy tale thinking to say that anyone worth being with doesn't care about looks or anyone who thinks they are important isn't--it's just a way to deflect guilt over the knowledge that looks matter to all of us, we've just been brainwashed to think that's shallow. It's not. It's when a person thinks good looks will make up for a bad personality that a person is being shallow. Wanting someone who turns on both your brain and your body? That's just being honest with yourself that you're a human being.
Granting you're right for the sake of argument, "most of the time" what you say is true. Why doesn't my assertion that "there are plenty of really great people out there who do care about looks" pertain to "some of the time"?
For what its worth, I'm more or less the same except I'm no longer fat or (in my opinion) bad looking. If you think that's bad, wait until you get to the part where you start to think your friends don't really appreciate you so much as they do your humor.Brimtastic said:First off, I want to apologize for wasting your time if none of this makes sense to you, the reader. I don't post much stuff. I just need to get some opinions and I find it quite difficult to articulate how I feel about this subject to friends or family. Your comments are always greatly appreciated.
Anyway, to tell you a little about myself, I am a pretty fat and ugly senior in high school. I have never had a girlfriend nor does it look that likely that I will in some time. In most other aspects of my life I feel confident in my capability. Just not this one.
I never really attempted to get a girlfriend until a year ago. Where I met a girl and I actually thought it was possible that she liked me and all that jazz (I even wrote her poems, yes it is stupid/creepy now that I look back on it, though she did like them). Only to find out she only thought of me as a "nice, funny guy"...
Now days, I am bitter towards the success of my friends and their relationships with their girlfriends. I feel cynical and cold. I have come to realization that no matter what I do/say I will always be the "fat funny guy". I find no point in "being nice" to these girls, for I will be the same thing to them no matter how I act. Right now I feel like this life I'm living in is just a joke and I'm the only one laughing...I don't want to laugh anymore.
Obviously I'm talking in general terms and there are always going to be exceptions when it comes to any observations that I might make about men and women. However, if you want to know what people like sexually, look at porn. "Fat girls porn" is a multi-million dollar industry. There is not a single adult bookstore on the planet that doesn't have pictures or video of overweight women being sold in it for a profit. People aren't buying that stuff just to laugh at it, they're buying it because they dig it.Cheeze_Pavilion said:My bad--I meant more the part about guys being all that different from girls. You yourself are proof of that!BonsaiK said:No it isn't.Cheeze_Pavilion said:That's bad advice: guys should definitely worry about being fat and ugly. It matters. And it's not about visual stimuli--it's about imagining tactile stimuli.BonsaiK said:This problem has been answered in the Relationship Problem Thread, which is at the following link: ----> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.117161?page=17#4191524
I will agree that women are not enticed by a specific body part the way men are, but we're talking about more than enticing a person in: we're talking about going all the way from initial interest to actual attraction. Girls looks at guys smarter and more "holistically" *at first* but once we're beyond first impression, fat and ugly is a pretty big deal breaker.
My last two girlfriends were fat and not because I just decided to "settle" for them. I actually turned down offers from skinnier girls to pursue them!
Quite a lot of people are genuinely attracted to fat people. Especially the tactile part of it.
I still think I disagree about how many people are attracted to fat people, but, I shouldn't have stated it so absolutely: you're right, there are a lot of people who are. However, there are a whole lot who aren't, and a lot of them are great girl/boyfriend material.
You hit the nail on the head there. Gj on the visual aids too.Cheeze_Pavilion said:'welcome! What you said reminded me a lot of a post I made a while back--nice to see it's not just my imaginings and that women actually agree with it; it's probably worth linking to in this thread:PeeSoup said:@Cheeze_Pavilion
You totally smell what I'm stepping in. Thanks for making my advice a bit clearer. I'm not always the best at articulating my thoughts and emphasizing the points I'd like to.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.139734.3145839
Guys don't lay down money on fat girls porn because "oh it's so fascinating". If I want to be fascinated by visuals I can go to an art gallery.Cheeze_Pavilion said:I say that's a false dichotomy. I think they're buying it because...people enjoy watching stuff that fascinates them. Doesn't mean they 'dig it' in the sense that they want it to become a reality, they just take voyeuristic pleasure in it.BonsaiK said:Obviously I'm talking in general terms and there are always going to be exceptions when it comes to any observations that I might make about men and women. However, if you want to know what people like sexually, look at porn. "Fat girls porn" is a multi-million dollar industry. There is not a single adult bookstore on the planet that doesn't have pictures or video of overweight women being sold in it for a profit. People aren't buying that stuff just to laugh at it, they're buying it because they dig it.
Bukkake is a pretty big industry too, but I doubt most guys want to be a part of one!
I disagree. I think that's just something we take for granted.Of course girls like the physical side too. They do. But that factor in isolation is definitely not quite as important, on average, across the board, with women as it is with men.
1) women feel inhibited about a magazine advertising itself as blatantly as the Playperson empire. Instead of Playgirl, they buy romance novels with Fabio on the cover. Or they go see Titanic a bajillion times.If it were, Playgirl would have been as successful as Playboy.
Besides--if a woman wants to see a naked man, she...kinda just has to offer to mess around with him. Playgirl is serving the market of women who want to see naked guys but not have sex with them. Playboy is serving the market of men who want to see naked girls, period. That explains a lot! My guess is very few men buy Playboy thinking "man, I want to see a girl naked, but I don't want to have to have sex with a girl just to do that."
And of course the whole issue of how many more women than men want to be the focus of attention in a sexual situation and the guy to take the lead and all those issues.
2) I agree with you that men are more *enticed* by the visual, but that's different from the question of whether looks matter as much.
Pretty much, one is descriptive, and one is insulting. There will always be people who will take offence to being called a slut, but Sorry, that's just they way they live and if they can't handle being called it, they can change. Calling someone the N-word is something they cannot choose nor change, and is used only to insult, which makes it worseCheeze_Pavilion said:So you're saying using the word "sluts" for certain women is no different than using the word "gay" for homosexuals because there's no history or background when it comes to the word slut.Acrisius said:Besides, it's not the same thing, you have to look at it with the proper perspective. The "N-word" has a lot of history and background. It's sole use was to be insulting and demeaning in so many ways, to the point where it has adopted this meaning. Thus, a non-black person would most likely not use the "N-word" unless he actually means to insult.
However, the word "slut" is just a general description for a type of behavior or life-style. And those who fit in to this description are called sluts. It's pure logic to me, just like there is a word for, say capitalism, and then people called capitalists. Or gay people being called gay. The words themselves are fine, and yet there are ways to say them to use them as insults. Are we gonna go nuts about every time this can happen?
Okay then...