Religion clashes with Laws

[DeMorgan]

Laws protecting freedom of religion are meant to allow individuals to practice their faith without fear of punishment. A practice may seem odd or offend the morals of others but that doesn't matter. This protection ends only when it interferes with the freedom of others.

In a free society laws should protect the freedom of its citizens. As an example the U.S Constitution and similar acts in other countries protects from government interference. Criminal law's role is to protect a citizen's freedom from the actions of other citizens; it defines the limits of freedom of religion. Even if a religion commanded a follower to steal, assault, kill or commit other criminal acts freedom of religion cannot provide a defense.

The husband in this example violated the freedom of his wife. If her religious beliefs included the right of a husband to beat his wife all she had to do was not report it. By reporting the crime she made it clear that this was not the case.

 

[Chaingang]

*snip*

Your Mother, I'm sorry to say, is ignorant in this matter.

The part I bolded of your post is in fact how it actually works.

Religious laws have no power compared to a countries laws, otherwise Christians could get away with burning Pagans to death couldn't they.

Yeah, we could. Seeing as how we're CHRISTIAN, though, we don't do that.

No, you couldn't. Murder is against the law.

The Christian bible says "burn the witch" so if you followed the Bible as opposed to the law then you could "justify" murdering Pagan's because they are witches.

Religion is the reason humanity is going to kill itself off. Think about it, if there had been no religion in te first place, this wouldnt have happened. Religion is just a form of using fear to control you. I bet the guys who wrote the bible would be laughing at us right now. Religion was a practical joke that went too far, and now people are getting beat, and killing each other over it.

Of course it would, take away Religion and people will find another excuse to do what they want.

Tell me specifically where the bible uses the term "burn the witch" (or any such term) and I'll concede. Until then, i'll have to say that the bible does not say that. Seeing as the mojority of the Christian faith is about forgiveness of sins and converting to the cause, I will have to say that that statement makes no sense at all.

 

[Scarecrow38]

In my country, Australia, religious permission/ practice is no defence for beating your wife or any other crime. We are a secular state. I think that's the way it should be. Religious laws were written for a different time with different social beliefs. We shouldn't be trying to live off general rules made centuries ago.

 

[Legion]

*snip*

*snip*

Yeah, we could. Seeing as how we're CHRISTIAN, though, we don't do that.

No, you couldn't. Murder is against the law.

The Christian bible says "burn the witch" so if you followed the Bible as opposed to the law then you could "justify" murdering Pagan's because they are witches.

Tell me specifically where the bible uses the term "burn the witch" (or any such term) and I'll concede. Until then, i'll have to say that the bible does not say that. Seeing as the mojority of the Christian faith is about forgiveness of sins and converting to the cause, I will have to say that that statement makes no sense at all.

Exodus 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"

It does not mention 'burning' specifically, but that was a common way to kill people accused of witchcraft.

Obviously most Christians do not take the Bible literally in this sense, but my point was more to do with the reasoning behind keeping religious laws and a countries laws separate. If Christian laws could affect the country then some of the fanatical sections could try and use the bible to justify murder.

 

[TZer0]

When going to another country you may bring your belief and religion, but not your traditions and habits which break the law.

 

[Horned Rat]

The law should be separate at all times from everything. One rule for all.

We have a similar case in this country (New Zealand) where 9 people held one of their relatives down and poured water into her eyes and mouth while at the same time pushing down on her stomach to make her vomit. No surprise, she drowned.

These 9 people are now on trial for manslaughter because they were performing a Maori exorcism. If I held someone down and drowned them I would be done for murder, no if or buts about it. Link below if you are interested.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2388943/Exorcism-weapon-against-the-demon

The law is the law. You may not like or agree with the law, but it is still the law.

 

[Seydaman]

this reminds me of an idea where i would write a paper completely based on the bible and try to sound as bullshitty as possible, then when i get called on it i can argue about religon, the idea was to see how the school system would react to something like that

 

[randomhero1928]

imo islam is the most logical religion
but you shouldnt take them all seriously, i think the Kevin Smith film dogma had the right thinking in it, it doesnt matter what faith you have, the religion itself isnt important, the important thing is that you have faith, and then follow the general things that all major religions encompas

 

[Valiance]

"I didn't know that shooting up schools is illegal here! I did it all the time in my old country - it's part of my religion!"

;/

 

[Skeleon]

The law should be separate at all times from everything. One rule for all.

Agreed.
Where there's freedom of religion/free choice of religion, there must be freedom of religiously based laws as well.
State and religion are completely different things, one is to govern the worldly aspects of society and humans lives while the other is (or rather, should be) purely spiritual, guiding and, above all, personal.

 

[jamesworkshop]

My Mother is a lawyer and while I was home last she told me about a case she had recently taken.
Her client was a muslim woman who had immigrated with her husband last year for buisness. Now in the muslim faith some groups and people have interpreted the Koran to say that it is allowable for a husband to beat his wife and as such there are no laws against it in most muslim countries. Now this woman had been married to this 40 year old man when she was 14 and upon moving to the US she was completly ignorant of the laws here and as such did not know that in the US there are laws against spousal abuse here. A few months later she filed for a divorce and now wants her husband to serve punishment for his abuse. She had gone to the police and another lawyer before hiring my Mother and when she told them that she was being beaten by her husband they replied with "Well thats part of your religion isn't it? You just have to deal with it."

I personally think that is ridiculus and belive that if you immigrate to a country and become its citizen you have to follow its laws that protect the rights and safety of others, even if your religion says otherwise, but what do you think?

For me it depends she would have to prove any abuse cases occuring on US soil not any incidents occuring where such things are legal

 

[Dele]

Tell me specifically where the bible uses the term "burn the witch" (or any such term) and I'll concede. Until then, i'll have to say that the bible does not say that. Seeing as the mojority of the Christian faith is about forgiveness of sins and converting to the cause, I will have to say that that statement makes no sense at all.

Youre kidding right? Bible and Koran are so violent that it would make a b-grade splatter movie jealous. Bible (and thus Christianity) for example has everything from going to hell for building a tent wrong to selling your daughter to slavery and raping pagans. I suggest reading it once in your life, it's quite humorous and God is acting really childish several times.

Here are few lines about witchcraft:
Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live. Exodus 22:18

There shall not be found with thee any one...that useth divination, one that practiseth augury, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer, | or a charmer, or a consulter with a familiar spirit, or a wizard, or a necromancer. Deuteronomy 18:10-11

New testament also has several that claim sorcery and witchcraft being sinful and sending you to hell for it.

Where there's freedom of religion/free choice of religion, there must be freedom of religiously based laws as well.
State and religion are completely different things, one is to govern the worldly aspects of society and humans lives while the other is (or rather, should be) purely spiritual, guiding and, above all, personal.

What people dont understand is that freedom of religion is a FREEDOM, not a right.

 

[HuntrRose]

*snip*

Your Mother, I'm sorry to say, is ignorant in this matter.

The part I bolded of your post is in fact how it actually works.

Religious laws have no power compared to a countries laws, otherwise Christians could get away with burning Pagans to death couldn't they.

Yeah, we could. Seeing as how we're CHRISTIAN, though, we don't do that.

No, you couldn't. Murder is against the law.

The Christian bible says "burn the witch" so if you followed the Bible as opposed to the law then you could "justify" murdering Pagan's because they are witches.

Religion is the reason humanity is going to kill itself off. Think about it, if there had been no religion in te first place, this wouldnt have happened. Religion is just a form of using fear to control you. I bet the guys who wrote the bible would be laughing at us right now. Religion was a practical joke that went too far, and now people are getting beat, and killing each other over it.

Of course it would, take away Religion and people will find another excuse to do what they want.

Tell me specifically where the bible uses the term "burn the witch" (or any such term) and I'll concede. Until then, i'll have to say that the bible does not say that. Seeing as the mojority of the Christian faith is about forgiveness of sins and converting to the cause, I will have to say that that statement makes no sense at all.

There is the famous qoute, possibly not from the bible, but some other christian text pushed by the vatican: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

Edit: oppss.. saw another, more precise answer after posting, oh well.

 

[TheDean]

Its called political correctness get used to it, here in Britain we even have those monstrous sharia law courts so Muslims wont be offended by being under regular persecution if the law.

i almost wept then.

Not in scotland. We punish them just like everyone else.

good ol' scots.

 

[Seekster]

Its called political correctness get used to it, here in Britain we even have those monstrous sharia law courts so Muslims wont be offended by being under regular persecution if the law.

i almost wept then.

Not in scotland. We punish them just like everyone else.

good ol' scots.

Madness? THIS IS SCOTLAND!!!

 

[Mackinator]

well religion shouldn't come into it since there's a seperation between church and state. The case should just go by law and nothing else

Exactly.
The law is the law, and if a law is broken, shouldnt the person who commited the crime be punished?

 

[Mackinator]

What people dont understand is that freedom of religion is a FREEDOM, not a right.

That is depending on the country you live on, it IS a right in some countries.

 

[PlasticPorter]

My Mother is a lawyer and while I was home last she told me about a case she had recently taken.
Her client was a muslim woman who had immigrated with her husband last year for buisness. Now in the muslim faith some groups and people have interpreted the Koran to say that it is allowable for a husband to beat his wife and as such there are no laws against it in most muslim countries. Now this woman had been married to this 40 year old man when she was 14 and upon moving to the US she was completly ignorant of the laws here and as such did not know that in the US there are laws against spousal abuse here. A few months later she filed for a divorce and now wants her husband to serve punishment for his abuse. She had gone to the police and another lawyer before hiring my Mother and when she told them that she was being beaten by her husband they replied with "Well thats part of your religion isn't it? You just have to deal with it."

I personally think that is ridiculus and belive that if you immigrate to a country and become its citizen you have to follow its laws that protect the rights and safety of others, even if your religion says otherwise, but what do you think?

For me it depends she would have to prove any abuse cases occuring on US soil not any incidents occuring where such things are legal

the abuse has occured on US soil for many years

 

[LisaB1138]

I'm an Atheist.... What would i swear on? Shakespeare, some moralist philosopher? I think i would just give my word as a human, as i dont need the threat of divine retribution to be honest.

Funny. That's just what Jesus said. "Just let your 'Yes' mean 'Yes.' Let your 'No' mean 'No.'"

"spare the rod< spoil the child" how could you not interpret that to mean "beat der shit outta your kid if he dun gone give you attsitude.

It's easy to misinterpret if you are culturally ignorant of the times in which that was written. It's written for a bunch of people who kept livestock. The "rod" is the rod used to guide sheep. In other words, a parent has the obligation to teach and guide their children or they'll grow up to be jerks. Quite possibly one of the most misunderstood passages, along with "turning the other cheek". It does not refer to letting people beat you some more. It's a demand to be treated as an equal and has specific meaning to those living under Roman occupation.

I don't think many of you understand what the Judeo-Christian ethic did for the West. You have to understand that even the Romans had no *moral* imperative against killing. Oh, there were people it was against the law to kill, but that was because of who they were, not because killing was *wrong*. A Roman father could kill his children for any reason.

The concept of charity also comes from religion. Even ancient religions had put forth the idea of caring for the poor and the weak. (Something I don't think is coincidence.)

I would never argue that religion has not been used to kill lots of people, but neither Pol Pot nor Stalin had "religion," yet they managed to do quite nicely in that department. Indeed, I find those examples more disturbing since they are more recent. One could argue that Spanish Conquistadors at least had cultural and historical ignorance on their side.