Should muslim women remove their veil in stores?

[Abedeus]

Second that's not an explanation, only an opinion; can you prove that a camera isn't stealing my immortal soul, or that making someone show their face is? Ignorance is lacking knowledge, knowledge is collected facts, facts are by definition, indisputable. Religion by nature cannot be proved or disproved by fact, that's why everyone is arguing in the first place.

Camera is stealing your immortal soul. Your painting also has your soul in it. If someone makes your portrait in ASCII code, he also steals your soul.

Logician has made a valid point that such discussion is pointless.

Islam:
No beer
No pork
Multiple wives (gotta give it to them on that one, kind of)
No summer dresses verge on the barely legal side of public exposure
Stop and pray 5 (?) times a day

Don't forget - you can't jack off and you have sand in your special areas all day long.

 

[OutlawV]

Yes, I'm aware of the hypocracy in saying "This isn't about religion or freedom of speech but America. I'm not saying this is about America, though; this is a small matter. It's a small matter that could lead to bigger things, and that's what worries me.

Umm, you did notice it was a story out of Australia, right?

Also, for the record, I agree, it should be the choice of the shopkeeper enact the rule, as it's the choice of the shopper to go there. I'm all for freedom of choice. I'm only against having what someone believes they should be able to do on someone else's property to come ahead of that person or their employee's personal safety, and not having a choice in the matter.

 

[Hawgh]

They should take them off in stores.
Actually they should take them off everywhere and burn them in a fire fueled by piss with an abnormally high amount of alcohol in it.

 

[Dele]

What kind of fucked up deity gives a shit if half his population choose to wear low cut tops in the summer? Seriously?

I lol'ed. Most gods are on power trips, they make some orders "just because".

When it comes down to it who are you going to follow:

Rational humanism:
Beer is okay
Responsible sex is okay
All foods are okay (as long as its not people)
No boring meetings

Islam:
No beer
No pork
Multiple wives (gotta give it to them on that one, kind of)
No summer dresses verge on the barely legal side of public exposure
Stop and pray 5 (?) times a day

Dont forget secular Islam which is in place for example in Kosovo. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23258488/]

Lots of beer
Lots of pork
One wife
Lots of exposed flesh
No praying
Support of Israel and Jews

Goo Kosovo \o/

 

[rossatdi]

What kind of fucked up deity gives a shit if half his population choose to wear low cut tops in the summer? Seriously?

I lol'ed. Most gods are on power trips, they make some orders "just because".

When it comes down to it who are you going to follow:

Rational humanism:
Beer is okay
Responsible sex is okay
All foods are okay (as long as its not people)
No boring meetings

Islam:
No beer
No pork
Multiple wives (gotta give it to them on that one, kind of)
No summer dresses verge on the barely legal side of public exposure
Stop and pray 5 (?) times a day

Dont forget secular Islam which is in place for example in Kosovo. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23258488/]

Lots of beer
Lots of pork
One wife
Lots of exposed flesh
No praying
Support of Israel and Jews

Goo Kosovo \o/

Secular anything is fine by me (except Stalinist communism, etc).

 

[000Ronald]

Yes, I'm aware of the hypocracy in saying "This isn't about religion or freedom of speech but America. I'm not saying this is about America, though; this is a small matter. It's a small matter that could lead to bigger things, and that's what worries me.

Umm, you did notice it was a story out of Australia, right?

Also, for the record, I agree, it should be the choice of the shopkeeper enact the rule, as it's the choice of the shopper to go there. I'm all for freedom of choice. I'm only against having what someone believes they should be able to do on someone else's property to come ahead of that person or their employee's personal safety, and not having a choice in the matter.

...actually, no, I didn't. I feel kinda moronic now (but I'm laughing on the inside).

My point still stands, though. Are you going to let yourself tear yourselves apart because of paranoia?

Apologies for the confusion.

 

[Aardvark Soup]

First of all there is a major difference between the hijab, which covers the whole face except for the eyes and a regular headscarf, the khimār or shaylah, which is usually worn by Muslim women in western and secular countries. I can understand the point that shopkeepers need to recognize people's faces, but then simply forbid wearing anything that can cover your face. Not specifically the headscarf, since that would be a form of discrimination against a religion and is also unfair against those that wear a khimār or shaylah.


EDIT: I may have some of the Arabic therms here wrong, since I only got them from a quick look on Wikipedia.

What kind of fucked up deity gives a shit if half his population choose to wear low cut tops in the summer? Seriously?

I lol'ed. Most gods are on power trips, they make some orders "just because".

When it comes down to it who are you going to follow:

Rational humanism:
Beer is okay
Responsible sex is okay
All foods are okay (as long as its not people)
No boring meetings

Islam:
No beer
No pork
Multiple wives (gotta give it to them on that one, kind of)
No summer dresses verge on the barely legal side of public exposure
Stop and pray 5 (?) times a day

Hey, I know some more stupid generalisations!

Christianity:
No sex before marriage.
No preservatives.
You can't do anything on sunday, except going to church and sunday school.
Don't vaccinate your children.
Do everything the Pope says.
If some scientific finding slightly contradicts with the Bible, it's wrong.
Pedophilia is okay. As long as it is heterosexual pedophilia, at least.
Etc, etc.


You can of course do the same for religions like Judaism, atheism and Hinduism but also for political movements like liberalism and socialism.

 

[OutlawV]

Second that's not an explanation, only an opinion; can you prove that a camera isn't stealing my immortal soul, or that making someone show their face is? Ignorance is lacking knowledge, knowledge is collected facts, facts are by definition, indisputable. Religion by nature cannot be proved or disproved by fact, that's why everyone is arguing in the first place.

Camera is stealing your immortal soul. Your painting also has your soul in it. If someone makes your portrait in ASCII code, he also steals your soul.

Logician has made a valid point that such discussion is pointless.

Exactly the point I was making, glad you agree. =)

I take the lack of refute of my other rebuttals to be acquiescence.

With that I take my leave, I'm loosing sleep here.

 

[OutlawV]

Ok, one last post ..

Yes, I'm aware of the hypocracy in saying "This isn't about religion or freedom of speech but America. I'm not saying this is about America, though; this is a small matter. It's a small matter that could lead to bigger things, and that's what worries me.

Umm, you did notice it was a story out of Australia, right?

Also, for the record, I agree, it should be the choice of the shopkeeper enact the rule, as it's the choice of the shopper to go there. I'm all for freedom of choice. I'm only against having what someone believes they should be able to do on someone else's property to come ahead of that person or their employee's personal safety, and not having a choice in the matter.

...actually, no, I didn't. I feel kinda moronic now (but I'm laughing on the inside).

My point still stands, though. Are you going to let yourself tear yourselves apart because of paranoia?

Apologies for the confusion.

I hope you're not addressing me, I'm also American, and horribly ashamed of a good deal of my fellow countrymen/sheep.

 

[cainx10a]

Of course they should remove them. I remember a few years ago some lady wanted to have her drivers licence taken with that thing on. Simple answer is when in rome. You are not in habibland anymore. Your religious bullshit does not override the customs or laws of the land you are currently in. If you dont like it then feel free to go back to whatever patch of desert you came from.

You sir, are a bigot. Mainly by this very colorful line here.

on-topic: No, they don't need to. Bulkas are completely unnecessary, but Hijabs, are pretty similar to the skullcaps Jews wear or Turbans worn by Sikhs.

What people need to understand, if we keep alienating these people, how exactly are they going to adapt to YOUR rules?

 

[Littaly]

If you walked into a store and the shopkeeper told you

"We have a new way to identify criminals, for security purposes, may I please ask you to take off your pants?"

how would you feel?

 

[InsanityBaronOfAtrocity]

Definitely. If they enter a bank then their face should be visible. It's a security risk, simple. It's not racist in any way and if they don't like it don't go in the bank.

If you walked into a store and the shopkeeper told you

"We have a new way to identify criminals, for security purposes, may I please ask you to take off your pants?"

how would you feel?

Not really the same thing is it mate? If the majority of the people in the country walked around with no pants on then yeah it wouldn't bother me at all.

 

[Dele]

Yes, I'm aware of the hypocracy in saying "This isn't about religion or freedom of speech but America. I'm not saying this is about America, though; this is a small matter. It's a small matter that could lead to bigger things, and that's what worries me.

Umm, you did notice it was a story out of Australia, right?

Also, for the record, I agree, it should be the choice of the shopkeeper enact the rule, as it's the choice of the shopper to go there. I'm all for freedom of choice. I'm only against having what someone believes they should be able to do on someone else's property to come ahead of that person or their employee's personal safety, and not having a choice in the matter.

...actually, no, I didn't. I feel kinda moronic now (but I'm laughing on the inside).

My point still stands, though. Are you going to let yourself tear yourselves apart because of paranoia?

Apologies for the confusion.

I think that in the modern world people have too little fear. People take their freedoms granted and let themselves be deluded to thinking that they are universal and eternal. Of course at extremes fear becomes paralyzing and harmful, but just a little bit of fear can help motivate you to become more politically active and defend your rights and freedoms.

Many wars are fought for fear of something. On Cold war it propably was fear of commies and losing power that made US fight on multiple fronts against Soviets. While you could say that Iraq and Afghanistan were fought because of fear (fear of losing oil or fear of anti-US middle-east) I wouldnt go as far as to claim such. Both wars seemed to be wars of opportunity rather than war of fears as Bush decided to exploit the popular support gained by people wishing to extract revenge over WTC attacks.

We are not above becoming polarized over things like religion as showed by numerous threads before this one. When you talk about things associated with religion, the talk always becomes one of religion like it or not.

 

[Hawgh]

If you walked into a store and the shopkeeper told you

"We have a new way to identify criminals, for security purposes, may I please ask you to take off your pants?"

how would you feel?

mystified?

 

[rossatdi]

I think it's time for this thread to be closed. It's long since abandoned any form of intelligent, reasonable discussion and has become nothing more than a place to bash and slander religion.

Well if you'd like to intelligently reply to any of the following points please, feel free. Don't mistake rhetoric for empty rhetoric, I'm happy to defend my points:

Sorry, sorry, sorry. I mean 'answer it correctly'. Seeing as the only proof for a God that won't, by definition, give evidence of himself can be personal and unquantifiable, I'm going to go with, no, no one has answered it successfully.

Before you start waving the Christian finger of concern I've spent many years looking for the answer, many years studying religion and if God hasn't felt it within his personal remit to make himself available to an open inquisitive mind he can sit on it and spin quite frankly.

You know what's really helping the world out? Belief in abosolute concepts written by men hundreds or thousands of years ago. Oh wait, its killing people by saying condoms are evil, promoting child suicide bombings and actively encouraging the demonisation of entire cultures. Yeah, thanks God. If you do really exist you're a dick.

What kind of fucked up deity gives a shit if half his population choose to wear low cut tops in the summer? Seriously?

 

[rossatdi]

If you walked into a store and the shopkeeper told you

"We have a new way to identify criminals, for security purposes, may I please ask you to take off your pants?"

how would you feel?

mystified?

sexy?

 

[sirdapfrey]

, but the "You shall not kill" is one of the Ten Commandments. 5th or 6th one, depending on what church you are in (Jews and Protestants 6th, Catholics 5th).

Yes but after reading several passages in the Bible, you would realize that it should read, "Thou shalt not kill...except for when God tells you to."

Let's try not to have arguments supported by one of the most hypocritical books of all time.

http://www.evilbible.com/