So, you're a sniper...

[dragonslayer32]

you are s sniper sent to kill a dictator who has committed mass genocide. However, the target is surrounded by children, which you would have to kill in order to kill the target. What do you do?

EDIT - you are using a special round, which the shock alone will kill anyone it closely passes. (which norman 50cal bullets can do) THESE ARE THE ONLY ROUNDS YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN. Time is running out, this is the only public appearence of said dictator and you have to either fire now or let him live.

ANOTHER EDIT - this actually happened, not the sniping part but Sadam used to have children surround him incase of such a situation. A child can be anyone under 16, i don't know about you guys, but i was about 6ft when i was 15.

No, normal .50BMG rounds do NOT kill people by passing by them. You sir, are an idiot.

Any sniper worth his salt isn't going to have no problem nailing the dictator with out hitting the children. Seriously, putting a round through the man's head would provide a couple of feet of buffer zone between the dictator and said children, so even if the bullets DID do as you describe (And no, no they don't.), they would STILL be pretty well protected.

Even if they weren't? If they're sending you on this mission, there's a damned good reason for it. You and your spotter are going to take the shot as it presents itself: Those are your orders.

So yes, I would.

And yes, you're still an idiot.

no sir, you are the idiot. If a 50cal round passes you at high speeds, the force CAN kill you, i learned that from a show on sipers on the descovery channel in which they interviewed a man who's arm got blown off by the force.

That doesn't come from a near miss. That comes from a direct hit. Were .50BMG to act as you're describing, the Browning would cause FAR more friendly fire issues than it currently does. The .50BMG cartridge (or the more powerful at range .408Cheyenne Tactical) simply do NOT produce pressure waves of the magnitude you're describing. Having a high caliber round pass by you while it's still super sonic would give you a crack as the miniaturized sonic boom passed by you, it would not kill you, tear your arm off, or make you sneeze blood.

Piss your pants, sure. But not kill you. There is simply zero evidence to back up the internet mythology you are presenting as fact.

Can you read? I ask this as I stated in my reply that I watched a documentary on snipers which said IT CAN HAPPEN! I have just spent 5 minutes looking on youtube for the evidence but sadly, youtube does not have the footage.

That's because there is no evidence, because it simply doesn't happen. I'm a regular shooter, and the phenomena you are describing would be in effect for ANY bullet, not just .50BMG. So my brothers AR-15, my dad's Mosin Nagant, and my Remington would ALL produce pressure waves like what you're describing.


There for, on the 'can you read' vein, and ALSO referencing the Discovery channel:

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9741919888/m/4041982359

However, unlike most 'sniper' shows on the same, this bit is using less a sharpshooter telling stories, and more real world physics. Also note: I'm not simply saying that I saw it on TV once that it can happen. What you're talking about is nothing more than an internet myth. You know, like the Desert Eagle is the most powerful and best handgun in the world (AND was issued to the IDF), or vampires should sparkle, or that my sexuality is questionable (Though that mostly only came up while playing FPS multiplayer games).

Instead, I'm pointing you towards real world evidence to back my claims.

The only way a bullet will hurt you is if it hits you (Or the shrapnel created by it's passing through barriers does).

So, and I say this the final time: You are, in point (and light of) fact, an idiot. Thank you for playing.

Don't feel bad though, it's an interesting myth that just about anyone from the Call of Duty age would be easily duped by, since most don't have any real firearms experience. Besides, if games were being realistic, don't you think they would have added that particular effect?

your point may be true for the modern 50cal, the so called 'Boat-Tailed' bullet in which the back of it bends in to decrease drag, which in turn, decreased the ammount of air desturbed.
before these bullets were invented however, a 50cal round COULD have made you deaf or even ripped your ear off. however, i admit, before when i said it ripped his arm off, it did but it hit the wall he was standing against, which means shrapnel and other factors also come into play. as for games, i was playing cod a couple of days ago and shot someone in the leg with a barrett to which he replied by turning around, noob tubing me and then running. RUNNING! after a shot to the leg. I am sorry, but you can not say that those games are realistic. If they were, don,t you thing soldiers would use the stopping power or danger close perks?

If the front of the bullet is still spiralling and distributing the air the same, but the back of the bullet disturbs air less, how is it exerting excessive pressure when the air it would need to push is not being disturbed as much.

AS mentioned, produce a video. there would have to have been significant damage to rip a man's arm off. EVEN with debris from a wall and the bullet. More like the shrapnel pierced, damaged his arm, and he had to get it amputated. I don't think it was ripped off or fell off.

And no, videogames aren't that realistic. What? How lively would a multiplayer match be if you shot a man in the arm once and he couldn't fire anymore, or if you took one shot in the leg and had to hobble?

you sir, are starting to annoy me. the boat tailed bullet reduces drag causing the bullet to spin and travel faster reducing drag which means that less air is disrupted causing a smaller shock wave. you speak of the bullet as being in two seperate parts which confused me slightly. however, i am not here to give physics lessons, believe what you will. also, when you say produce a video i hope you mean find one on the internet because if you don't i may have trouble getting hold of some of the materials needed. not every video is on the internet and for this, i am sorry. to conclude this discussion in this piss poor job for a morality question, believe what you want and i will believe what i want, just don't bother me anymore, my computer can't handle it. nice debating with you

 

[cutecuddely]

how stupid can somebody be by giving you .50 cal bullets to take out somebody in a civillian area???? yiu are a professional you sould know these things and anyway .50 cal rifels are pretty big!!!

 

[Knight Templar]

Ask for confirmation, if I am ordered to take the shot, follow my orders.
That would be an aspect of being in the armed forces. But its a totally stupid situation, couldn't happen in real life unless the target was actively using kids as body armour.

 

[WestMountain]

How much would I be paid for shooting him?...

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

Hm... I think I made him mad... Shame that...

A vidoe on the net would actually be appreciated. I mean... Hell if he proves me wrong I'd be interested in seeing it, but from what I know and from what I've learned... It simply won't happen. Hopefully he finds that vid... If not, oh well.

 

[jacobgr43]

if killing the children and dictator at the same time prevents the deaths of considerably more people then it is the lesser of two evils and i would take the shot and deal with the reprocussions later

 

[Koeryn]

you are s sniper sent to kill a dictator who has committed mass genocide. However, the target is surrounded by children, which you would have to kill in order to kill the target. What do you do?

EDIT - you are using a special round, which the shock alone will kill anyone it closely passes. (which norman 50cal bullets can do) THESE ARE THE ONLY ROUNDS YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN. Time is running out, this is the only public appearence of said dictator and you have to either fire now or let him live.

ANOTHER EDIT - this actually happened, not the sniping part but Sadam used to have children surround him incase of such a situation. A child can be anyone under 16, i don't know about you guys, but i was about 6ft when i was 15.

No, normal .50BMG rounds do NOT kill people by passing by them. You sir, are an idiot.

Any sniper worth his salt isn't going to have no problem nailing the dictator with out hitting the children. Seriously, putting a round through the man's head would provide a couple of feet of buffer zone between the dictator and said children, so even if the bullets DID do as you describe (And no, no they don't.), they would STILL be pretty well protected.

Even if they weren't? If they're sending you on this mission, there's a damned good reason for it. You and your spotter are going to take the shot as it presents itself: Those are your orders.

So yes, I would.

And yes, you're still an idiot.

no sir, you are the idiot. If a 50cal round passes you at high speeds, the force CAN kill you, i learned that from a show on sipers on the descovery channel in which they interviewed a man who's arm got blown off by the force.

That doesn't come from a near miss. That comes from a direct hit. Were .50BMG to act as you're describing, the Browning would cause FAR more friendly fire issues than it currently does. The .50BMG cartridge (or the more powerful at range .408Cheyenne Tactical) simply do NOT produce pressure waves of the magnitude you're describing. Having a high caliber round pass by you while it's still super sonic would give you a crack as the miniaturized sonic boom passed by you, it would not kill you, tear your arm off, or make you sneeze blood.

Piss your pants, sure. But not kill you. There is simply zero evidence to back up the internet mythology you are presenting as fact.

Can you read? I ask this as I stated in my reply that I watched a documentary on snipers which said IT CAN HAPPEN! I have just spent 5 minutes looking on youtube for the evidence but sadly, youtube does not have the footage.

That's because there is no evidence, because it simply doesn't happen. I'm a regular shooter, and the phenomena you are describing would be in effect for ANY bullet, not just .50BMG. So my brothers AR-15, my dad's Mosin Nagant, and my Remington would ALL produce pressure waves like what you're describing.


There for, on the 'can you read' vein, and ALSO referencing the Discovery channel:

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9741919888/m/4041982359

However, unlike most 'sniper' shows on the same, this bit is using less a sharpshooter telling stories, and more real world physics. Also note: I'm not simply saying that I saw it on TV once that it can happen. What you're talking about is nothing more than an internet myth. You know, like the Desert Eagle is the most powerful and best handgun in the world, or vampires should sparkle, or that my sexuality is questionable (Though that mostly only came up while playing FPS multiplayer games).

Instead, I'm pointing you towards real world evidence to back my claims.

The only way a bullet will hurt you is if it hits you (Or the shrapnel created by it's passing through barriers does).

So, and I say this the final time: You are, in point (and light of) fact, an idiot. Thank you for playing.

Don't feel bad though, it's an interesting myth that just about anyone from the Call of Duty age would be easily duped by, since most don't have any real firearms experience. Besides, if games were being realistic, don't you think they would have added that particular effect?

I guess I used a much less hand-on approach, but good show XD

lol, firearms are a passion for me, I know them. When I don't know something, I research exhaustively. Want a price on a specific handgun or rifle? I can probably track it down, even maybe find the BEST price. Want something exotic? I can probably track that down too.

I'm not an expert, and I don't pretend to be, but I have a LOT of free time, and pretty much all of it's spent with or about firearms.

Well, like in my argument, it's the pressure required. I know it takes 6 pounds of pressure to rip an ear off. The arm can be upwards of 100 - 200 pounds. A bulet exerting that kind of force to everything around it... Scary thought it that happened.

I'm not sure if my spin theory of the bullet was right though. The curvature should definately diverty the pressure exerted towards the back of the bullet to propel it I believe

Not propel it (the expanding gas through the chamber and barrel does that), the spin does nothing but stablize the round in the air.

you are s sniper sent to kill a dictator who has committed mass genocide. However, the target is surrounded by children, which you would have to kill in order to kill the target. What do you do?

EDIT - you are using a special round, which the shock alone will kill anyone it closely passes. (which norman 50cal bullets can do) THESE ARE THE ONLY ROUNDS YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN. Time is running out, this is the only public appearence of said dictator and you have to either fire now or let him live.

ANOTHER EDIT - this actually happened, not the sniping part but Sadam used to have children surround him incase of such a situation. A child can be anyone under 16, i don't know about you guys, but i was about 6ft when i was 15.

No, normal .50BMG rounds do NOT kill people by passing by them. You sir, are an idiot.

Any sniper worth his salt isn't going to have no problem nailing the dictator with out hitting the children. Seriously, putting a round through the man's head would provide a couple of feet of buffer zone between the dictator and said children, so even if the bullets DID do as you describe (And no, no they don't.), they would STILL be pretty well protected.

Even if they weren't? If they're sending you on this mission, there's a damned good reason for it. You and your spotter are going to take the shot as it presents itself: Those are your orders.

So yes, I would.

And yes, you're still an idiot.

no sir, you are the idiot. If a 50cal round passes you at high speeds, the force CAN kill you, i learned that from a show on sipers on the descovery channel in which they interviewed a man who's arm got blown off by the force.

That doesn't come from a near miss. That comes from a direct hit. Were .50BMG to act as you're describing, the Browning would cause FAR more friendly fire issues than it currently does. The .50BMG cartridge (or the more powerful at range .408Cheyenne Tactical) simply do NOT produce pressure waves of the magnitude you're describing. Having a high caliber round pass by you while it's still super sonic would give you a crack as the miniaturized sonic boom passed by you, it would not kill you, tear your arm off, or make you sneeze blood.

Piss your pants, sure. But not kill you. There is simply zero evidence to back up the internet mythology you are presenting as fact.

Can you read? I ask this as I stated in my reply that I watched a documentary on snipers which said IT CAN HAPPEN! I have just spent 5 minutes looking on youtube for the evidence but sadly, youtube does not have the footage.

That's because there is no evidence, because it simply doesn't happen. I'm a regular shooter, and the phenomena you are describing would be in effect for ANY bullet, not just .50BMG. So my brothers AR-15, my dad's Mosin Nagant, and my Remington would ALL produce pressure waves like what you're describing.


There for, on the 'can you read' vein, and ALSO referencing the Discovery channel:

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9741919888/m/4041982359

However, unlike most 'sniper' shows on the same, this bit is using less a sharpshooter telling stories, and more real world physics. Also note: I'm not simply saying that I saw it on TV once that it can happen. What you're talking about is nothing more than an internet myth. You know, like the Desert Eagle is the most powerful and best handgun in the world (AND was issued to the IDF), or vampires should sparkle, or that my sexuality is questionable (Though that mostly only came up while playing FPS multiplayer games).

Instead, I'm pointing you towards real world evidence to back my claims.

The only way a bullet will hurt you is if it hits you (Or the shrapnel created by it's passing through barriers does).

So, and I say this the final time: You are, in point (and light of) fact, an idiot. Thank you for playing.

Don't feel bad though, it's an interesting myth that just about anyone from the Call of Duty age would be easily duped by, since most don't have any real firearms experience. Besides, if games were being realistic, don't you think they would have added that particular effect?

your point may be true for the modern 50cal, the so called 'Boat-Tailed' bullet in which the back of it bends in to decrease drag, which in turn, decreased the ammount of air desturbed.
before these bullets were invented however, a 50cal round COULD have made you deaf or even ripped your ear off. however, i admit, before when i said it ripped his arm off, it did but it hit the wall he was standing against, which means shrapnel and other factors also come into play. as for games, i was playing cod a couple of days ago and shot someone in the leg with a barrett to which he replied by turning around, noob tubing me and then running. RUNNING! after a shot to the leg. I am sorry, but you can not say that those games are realistic. If they were, don,t you thing soldiers would use the stopping power or danger close perks?

You're missing the point, and attempting to save face by claiming it was only in the original .50BMG (which was a boat tailed round anyways, it's just an enlarged .30-06). Or is the original BMG not old enough?

'Cause before the advent of the .50BMG (which was, as mentioned before, an enlarged .30-06, and originally used only in machine guns before rifles were designed to handle the cartridge), you're getting into black powder .50s, which were significantly less efficient powder burns, which led to much lower muzzle velocities.

Which, in turn, and should be obvious, means less energy to transfer to the air around it.

Actually, let's look at that transfer, shall we?

Bullets are designed to reduce drag, and it has nothing to do with the supposedly lethal effects of the wind of they're passing. They're designed to reduce drag so that the bullet will travel further, faster, and hit harder, transferring more of their original kinetic energy into your target.

The less aerodynamically efficient a bullet is, the less accurate it is (as in a Sniper wouldn't want to use it in the first place, not even bringing into call what so many others in this thread have so far as a sniper using a bullet that literally works like the sniper rifle from Halo, directing all eyes back to the source), but it also shortens the range, and reduces the power on impact.

Now, think about it for a second: You have a bullet that has such poor ballistics, it imparts enough energy to the air around it to kill people it misses, people literally feet out of it's path. Can you imagine how far that bullet would actually travel? The answer is: Not very. The forces involved would literally rip the bullet to pieces. I can't even begin to imagine how much powder would have to be behind it to even get it out of the barrel, and then how does it get out of the barrel without destroying the weapon firing?


Yes, the .50BMG may seem like a mindbogglingly powerful cartridge, but physics really does put it into perspective.

So does the fact that it only carries about five times the muzzle energy as my .30-06 Springfield.

 

[latenightapplepie]

you are s sniper sent to kill a dictator who has committed mass genocide.

Is he going to continue mass genocide? That is, will more people die because he wants them to, if I don't kill him now?

If I'm being ordered to kill him as some kind to achieve justice rather than as a measure to prevent more people dying, then I wouldn't do it. That just seems wrong to me.

 

[wolf92]

Unless the Dictator is midget I don't see how the kids are going to block the shoot

 

[Eisenfaust]

ok, so setting aside the obvious flaws in the question, wouldn't the children also be in the country that, assuming you failed, would be invaded, meaning they have a high chance of dying regardless?

what your trying to get at essentially boils down the the old "kill a few to save a million", which would have just been easier phrasing for the question, but really, why not? you're going to let one evil dictator and 10 children survive because you can't stand the guilt of killing them and you have prepared yourself to rationalise the deaths of everyone else as a result?... take the shot, pack up, go home, everyone's happy

 

[Mr Montmorency]

If you're forcing me to use .50 cal rounds, then I mightaswell wait until he gets into his convoy, that way you can take out his best men as well.

 

[Miffmoff]

I'd aim for the midget dressed in a suit

 

[dragonslayer32]

you are s sniper sent to kill a dictator who has committed mass genocide. However, the target is surrounded by children, which you would have to kill in order to kill the target. What do you do?

EDIT - you are using a special round, which the shock alone will kill anyone it closely passes. (which norman 50cal bullets can do) THESE ARE THE ONLY ROUNDS YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN. Time is running out, this is the only public appearence of said dictator and you have to either fire now or let him live.

ANOTHER EDIT - this actually happened, not the sniping part but Sadam used to have children surround him incase of such a situation. A child can be anyone under 16, i don't know about you guys, but i was about 6ft when i was 15.

No, normal .50BMG rounds do NOT kill people by passing by them. You sir, are an idiot.

Any sniper worth his salt isn't going to have no problem nailing the dictator with out hitting the children. Seriously, putting a round through the man's head would provide a couple of feet of buffer zone between the dictator and said children, so even if the bullets DID do as you describe (And no, no they don't.), they would STILL be pretty well protected.

Even if they weren't? If they're sending you on this mission, there's a damned good reason for it. You and your spotter are going to take the shot as it presents itself: Those are your orders.

So yes, I would.

And yes, you're still an idiot.

no sir, you are the idiot. If a 50cal round passes you at high speeds, the force CAN kill you, i learned that from a show on sipers on the descovery channel in which they interviewed a man who's arm got blown off by the force.

That doesn't come from a near miss. That comes from a direct hit. Were .50BMG to act as you're describing, the Browning would cause FAR more friendly fire issues than it currently does. The .50BMG cartridge (or the more powerful at range .408Cheyenne Tactical) simply do NOT produce pressure waves of the magnitude you're describing. Having a high caliber round pass by you while it's still super sonic would give you a crack as the miniaturized sonic boom passed by you, it would not kill you, tear your arm off, or make you sneeze blood.

Piss your pants, sure. But not kill you. There is simply zero evidence to back up the internet mythology you are presenting as fact.

Can you read? I ask this as I stated in my reply that I watched a documentary on snipers which said IT CAN HAPPEN! I have just spent 5 minutes looking on youtube for the evidence but sadly, youtube does not have the footage.

That's because there is no evidence, because it simply doesn't happen. I'm a regular shooter, and the phenomena you are describing would be in effect for ANY bullet, not just .50BMG. So my brothers AR-15, my dad's Mosin Nagant, and my Remington would ALL produce pressure waves like what you're describing.


There for, on the 'can you read' vein, and ALSO referencing the Discovery channel:

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9741919888/m/4041982359

However, unlike most 'sniper' shows on the same, this bit is using less a sharpshooter telling stories, and more real world physics. Also note: I'm not simply saying that I saw it on TV once that it can happen. What you're talking about is nothing more than an internet myth. You know, like the Desert Eagle is the most powerful and best handgun in the world, or vampires should sparkle, or that my sexuality is questionable (Though that mostly only came up while playing FPS multiplayer games).

Instead, I'm pointing you towards real world evidence to back my claims.

The only way a bullet will hurt you is if it hits you (Or the shrapnel created by it's passing through barriers does).

So, and I say this the final time: You are, in point (and light of) fact, an idiot. Thank you for playing.

Don't feel bad though, it's an interesting myth that just about anyone from the Call of Duty age would be easily duped by, since most don't have any real firearms experience. Besides, if games were being realistic, don't you think they would have added that particular effect?

I guess I used a much less hand-on approach, but good show XD

lol, firearms are a passion for me, I know them. When I don't know something, I research exhaustively. Want a price on a specific handgun or rifle? I can probably track it down, even maybe find the BEST price. Want something exotic? I can probably track that down too.

I'm not an expert, and I don't pretend to be, but I have a LOT of free time, and pretty much all of it's spent with or about firearms.

Well, like in my argument, it's the pressure required. I know it takes 6 pounds of pressure to rip an ear off. The arm can be upwards of 100 - 200 pounds. A bulet exerting that kind of force to everything around it... Scary thought it that happened.

I'm not sure if my spin theory of the bullet was right though. The curvature should definately diverty the pressure exerted towards the back of the bullet to propel it I believe

Not propel it (the expanding gas through the chamber and barrel does that), the spin does nothing but stablize the round in the air.

you are s sniper sent to kill a dictator who has committed mass genocide. However, the target is surrounded by children, which you would have to kill in order to kill the target. What do you do?

EDIT - you are using a special round, which the shock alone will kill anyone it closely passes. (which norman 50cal bullets can do) THESE ARE THE ONLY ROUNDS YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN. Time is running out, this is the only public appearence of said dictator and you have to either fire now or let him live.

ANOTHER EDIT - this actually happened, not the sniping part but Sadam used to have children surround him incase of such a situation. A child can be anyone under 16, i don't know about you guys, but i was about 6ft when i was 15.

No, normal .50BMG rounds do NOT kill people by passing by them. You sir, are an idiot.

Any sniper worth his salt isn't going to have no problem nailing the dictator with out hitting the children. Seriously, putting a round through the man's head would provide a couple of feet of buffer zone between the dictator and said children, so even if the bullets DID do as you describe (And no, no they don't.), they would STILL be pretty well protected.

Even if they weren't? If they're sending you on this mission, there's a damned good reason for it. You and your spotter are going to take the shot as it presents itself: Those are your orders.

So yes, I would.

And yes, you're still an idiot.

no sir, you are the idiot. If a 50cal round passes you at high speeds, the force CAN kill you, i learned that from a show on sipers on the descovery channel in which they interviewed a man who's arm got blown off by the force.

That doesn't come from a near miss. That comes from a direct hit. Were .50BMG to act as you're describing, the Browning would cause FAR more friendly fire issues than it currently does. The .50BMG cartridge (or the more powerful at range .408Cheyenne Tactical) simply do NOT produce pressure waves of the magnitude you're describing. Having a high caliber round pass by you while it's still super sonic would give you a crack as the miniaturized sonic boom passed by you, it would not kill you, tear your arm off, or make you sneeze blood.

Piss your pants, sure. But not kill you. There is simply zero evidence to back up the internet mythology you are presenting as fact.

Can you read? I ask this as I stated in my reply that I watched a documentary on snipers which said IT CAN HAPPEN! I have just spent 5 minutes looking on youtube for the evidence but sadly, youtube does not have the footage.

That's because there is no evidence, because it simply doesn't happen. I'm a regular shooter, and the phenomena you are describing would be in effect for ANY bullet, not just .50BMG. So my brothers AR-15, my dad's Mosin Nagant, and my Remington would ALL produce pressure waves like what you're describing.


There for, on the 'can you read' vein, and ALSO referencing the Discovery channel:

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9741919888/m/4041982359

However, unlike most 'sniper' shows on the same, this bit is using less a sharpshooter telling stories, and more real world physics. Also note: I'm not simply saying that I saw it on TV once that it can happen. What you're talking about is nothing more than an internet myth. You know, like the Desert Eagle is the most powerful and best handgun in the world (AND was issued to the IDF), or vampires should sparkle, or that my sexuality is questionable (Though that mostly only came up while playing FPS multiplayer games).

Instead, I'm pointing you towards real world evidence to back my claims.

The only way a bullet will hurt you is if it hits you (Or the shrapnel created by it's passing through barriers does).

So, and I say this the final time: You are, in point (and light of) fact, an idiot. Thank you for playing.

Don't feel bad though, it's an interesting myth that just about anyone from the Call of Duty age would be easily duped by, since most don't have any real firearms experience. Besides, if games were being realistic, don't you think they would have added that particular effect?

your point may be true for the modern 50cal, the so called 'Boat-Tailed' bullet in which the back of it bends in to decrease drag, which in turn, decreased the ammount of air desturbed.
before these bullets were invented however, a 50cal round COULD have made you deaf or even ripped your ear off. however, i admit, before when i said it ripped his arm off, it did but it hit the wall he was standing against, which means shrapnel and other factors also come into play. as for games, i was playing cod a couple of days ago and shot someone in the leg with a barrett to which he replied by turning around, noob tubing me and then running. RUNNING! after a shot to the leg. I am sorry, but you can not say that those games are realistic. If they were, don,t you thing soldiers would use the stopping power or danger close perks?

You're missing the point, and attempting to save face by claiming it was only in the original .50BMG (which was a boat tailed round anyways, it's just an enlarged .30-06). Or is the original BMG not old enough?

'Cause before the advent of the .50BMG (which was, as mentioned before, an enlarged .30-06, and originally used only in machine guns before rifles were designed to handle the cartridge), you're getting into black powder .50s, which were significantly less efficient powder burns, which led to much lower muzzle velocities.

Which, in turn, and should be obvious, means less energy to transfer to the air around it.

Actually, let's look at that transfer, shall we?

Bullets are designed to reduce drag, and it has nothing to do with the supposedly lethal effects of the wind of they're passing. They're designed to reduce drag so that the bullet will travel further, faster, and hit harder, transferring more of their original kinetic energy into your target.

The less aerodynamically efficient a bullet is, the less accurate it is (as in a Sniper wouldn't want to use it in the first place, not even bringing into call what so many others in this thread have so far as a sniper using a bullet that literally works like the sniper rifle from Halo, directing all eyes back to the source), but it also shortens the range, and reduces the power on impact.

Now, think about it for a second: You have a bullet that has such poor ballistics, it imparts enough energy to the air around it to kill people it misses, people literally feet out of it's path. Can you imagine how far that bullet would actually travel? The answer is: Not very. The forces involved would literally rip the bullet to pieces. I can't even begin to imagine how much powder would have to be behind it to even get it out of the barrel, and then how does it get out of the barrel without destroying the weapon firing?


Yes, the .50BMG may seem like a mindbogglingly powerful cartridge, but physics really does put it into perspective.

So does the fact that it only carries about five times the muzzle energy as my .30-06 Springfield.

what you have just said, is exactly why they invented the boad tailed round, to improve accuracy. it was a work in progress.

 

[Koeryn]

you are s sniper sent to kill a dictator who has committed mass genocide. However, the target is surrounded by children, which you would have to kill in order to kill the target. What do you do?

EDIT - you are using a special round, which the shock alone will kill anyone it closely passes. (which norman 50cal bullets can do) THESE ARE THE ONLY ROUNDS YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN. Time is running out, this is the only public appearence of said dictator and you have to either fire now or let him live.

ANOTHER EDIT - this actually happened, not the sniping part but Sadam used to have children surround him incase of such a situation. A child can be anyone under 16, i don't know about you guys, but i was about 6ft when i was 15.

No, normal .50BMG rounds do NOT kill people by passing by them. You sir, are an idiot.

Any sniper worth his salt isn't going to have no problem nailing the dictator with out hitting the children. Seriously, putting a round through the man's head would provide a couple of feet of buffer zone between the dictator and said children, so even if the bullets DID do as you describe (And no, no they don't.), they would STILL be pretty well protected.

Even if they weren't? If they're sending you on this mission, there's a damned good reason for it. You and your spotter are going to take the shot as it presents itself: Those are your orders.

So yes, I would.

And yes, you're still an idiot.

no sir, you are the idiot. If a 50cal round passes you at high speeds, the force CAN kill you, i learned that from a show on sipers on the descovery channel in which they interviewed a man who's arm got blown off by the force.

That doesn't come from a near miss. That comes from a direct hit. Were .50BMG to act as you're describing, the Browning would cause FAR more friendly fire issues than it currently does. The .50BMG cartridge (or the more powerful at range .408Cheyenne Tactical) simply do NOT produce pressure waves of the magnitude you're describing. Having a high caliber round pass by you while it's still super sonic would give you a crack as the miniaturized sonic boom passed by you, it would not kill you, tear your arm off, or make you sneeze blood.

Piss your pants, sure. But not kill you. There is simply zero evidence to back up the internet mythology you are presenting as fact.

Can you read? I ask this as I stated in my reply that I watched a documentary on snipers which said IT CAN HAPPEN! I have just spent 5 minutes looking on youtube for the evidence but sadly, youtube does not have the footage.

That's because there is no evidence, because it simply doesn't happen. I'm a regular shooter, and the phenomena you are describing would be in effect for ANY bullet, not just .50BMG. So my brothers AR-15, my dad's Mosin Nagant, and my Remington would ALL produce pressure waves like what you're describing.


There for, on the 'can you read' vein, and ALSO referencing the Discovery channel:

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9741919888/m/4041982359

However, unlike most 'sniper' shows on the same, this bit is using less a sharpshooter telling stories, and more real world physics. Also note: I'm not simply saying that I saw it on TV once that it can happen. What you're talking about is nothing more than an internet myth. You know, like the Desert Eagle is the most powerful and best handgun in the world, or vampires should sparkle, or that my sexuality is questionable (Though that mostly only came up while playing FPS multiplayer games).

Instead, I'm pointing you towards real world evidence to back my claims.

The only way a bullet will hurt you is if it hits you (Or the shrapnel created by it's passing through barriers does).

So, and I say this the final time: You are, in point (and light of) fact, an idiot. Thank you for playing.

Don't feel bad though, it's an interesting myth that just about anyone from the Call of Duty age would be easily duped by, since most don't have any real firearms experience. Besides, if games were being realistic, don't you think they would have added that particular effect?

I guess I used a much less hand-on approach, but good show XD

lol, firearms are a passion for me, I know them. When I don't know something, I research exhaustively. Want a price on a specific handgun or rifle? I can probably track it down, even maybe find the BEST price. Want something exotic? I can probably track that down too.

I'm not an expert, and I don't pretend to be, but I have a LOT of free time, and pretty much all of it's spent with or about firearms.

Well, like in my argument, it's the pressure required. I know it takes 6 pounds of pressure to rip an ear off. The arm can be upwards of 100 - 200 pounds. A bulet exerting that kind of force to everything around it... Scary thought it that happened.

I'm not sure if my spin theory of the bullet was right though. The curvature should definately diverty the pressure exerted towards the back of the bullet to propel it I believe

Not propel it (the expanding gas through the chamber and barrel does that), the spin does nothing but stablize the round in the air.

you are s sniper sent to kill a dictator who has committed mass genocide. However, the target is surrounded by children, which you would have to kill in order to kill the target. What do you do?

EDIT - you are using a special round, which the shock alone will kill anyone it closely passes. (which norman 50cal bullets can do) THESE ARE THE ONLY ROUNDS YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN. Time is running out, this is the only public appearence of said dictator and you have to either fire now or let him live.

ANOTHER EDIT - this actually happened, not the sniping part but Sadam used to have children surround him incase of such a situation. A child can be anyone under 16, i don't know about you guys, but i was about 6ft when i was 15.

No, normal .50BMG rounds do NOT kill people by passing by them. You sir, are an idiot.

Any sniper worth his salt isn't going to have no problem nailing the dictator with out hitting the children. Seriously, putting a round through the man's head would provide a couple of feet of buffer zone between the dictator and said children, so even if the bullets DID do as you describe (And no, no they don't.), they would STILL be pretty well protected.

Even if they weren't? If they're sending you on this mission, there's a damned good reason for it. You and your spotter are going to take the shot as it presents itself: Those are your orders.

So yes, I would.

And yes, you're still an idiot.

no sir, you are the idiot. If a 50cal round passes you at high speeds, the force CAN kill you, i learned that from a show on sipers on the descovery channel in which they interviewed a man who's arm got blown off by the force.

That doesn't come from a near miss. That comes from a direct hit. Were .50BMG to act as you're describing, the Browning would cause FAR more friendly fire issues than it currently does. The .50BMG cartridge (or the more powerful at range .408Cheyenne Tactical) simply do NOT produce pressure waves of the magnitude you're describing. Having a high caliber round pass by you while it's still super sonic would give you a crack as the miniaturized sonic boom passed by you, it would not kill you, tear your arm off, or make you sneeze blood.

Piss your pants, sure. But not kill you. There is simply zero evidence to back up the internet mythology you are presenting as fact.

Can you read? I ask this as I stated in my reply that I watched a documentary on snipers which said IT CAN HAPPEN! I have just spent 5 minutes looking on youtube for the evidence but sadly, youtube does not have the footage.

That's because there is no evidence, because it simply doesn't happen. I'm a regular shooter, and the phenomena you are describing would be in effect for ANY bullet, not just .50BMG. So my brothers AR-15, my dad's Mosin Nagant, and my Remington would ALL produce pressure waves like what you're describing.


There for, on the 'can you read' vein, and ALSO referencing the Discovery channel:

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9741919888/m/4041982359

However, unlike most 'sniper' shows on the same, this bit is using less a sharpshooter telling stories, and more real world physics. Also note: I'm not simply saying that I saw it on TV once that it can happen. What you're talking about is nothing more than an internet myth. You know, like the Desert Eagle is the most powerful and best handgun in the world (AND was issued to the IDF), or vampires should sparkle, or that my sexuality is questionable (Though that mostly only came up while playing FPS multiplayer games).

Instead, I'm pointing you towards real world evidence to back my claims.

The only way a bullet will hurt you is if it hits you (Or the shrapnel created by it's passing through barriers does).

So, and I say this the final time: You are, in point (and light of) fact, an idiot. Thank you for playing.

Don't feel bad though, it's an interesting myth that just about anyone from the Call of Duty age would be easily duped by, since most don't have any real firearms experience. Besides, if games were being realistic, don't you think they would have added that particular effect?

your point may be true for the modern 50cal, the so called 'Boat-Tailed' bullet in which the back of it bends in to decrease drag, which in turn, decreased the ammount of air desturbed.
before these bullets were invented however, a 50cal round COULD have made you deaf or even ripped your ear off. however, i admit, before when i said it ripped his arm off, it did but it hit the wall he was standing against, which means shrapnel and other factors also come into play. as for games, i was playing cod a couple of days ago and shot someone in the leg with a barrett to which he replied by turning around, noob tubing me and then running. RUNNING! after a shot to the leg. I am sorry, but you can not say that those games are realistic. If they were, don,t you thing soldiers would use the stopping power or danger close perks?

You're missing the point, and attempting to save face by claiming it was only in the original .50BMG (which was a boat tailed round anyways, it's just an enlarged .30-06). Or is the original BMG not old enough?

'Cause before the advent of the .50BMG (which was, as mentioned before, an enlarged .30-06, and originally used only in machine guns before rifles were designed to handle the cartridge), you're getting into black powder .50s, which were significantly less efficient powder burns, which led to much lower muzzle velocities.

Which, in turn, and should be obvious, means less energy to transfer to the air around it.

Actually, let's look at that transfer, shall we?

Bullets are designed to reduce drag, and it has nothing to do with the supposedly lethal effects of the wind of they're passing. They're designed to reduce drag so that the bullet will travel further, faster, and hit harder, transferring more of their original kinetic energy into your target.

The less aerodynamically efficient a bullet is, the less accurate it is (as in a Sniper wouldn't want to use it in the first place, not even bringing into call what so many others in this thread have so far as a sniper using a bullet that literally works like the sniper rifle from Halo, directing all eyes back to the source), but it also shortens the range, and reduces the power on impact.

Now, think about it for a second: You have a bullet that has such poor ballistics, it imparts enough energy to the air around it to kill people it misses, people literally feet out of it's path. Can you imagine how far that bullet would actually travel? The answer is: Not very. The forces involved would literally rip the bullet to pieces. I can't even begin to imagine how much powder would have to be behind it to even get it out of the barrel, and then how does it get out of the barrel without destroying the weapon firing?


Yes, the .50BMG may seem like a mindbogglingly powerful cartridge, but physics really does put it into perspective.

So does the fact that it only carries about five times the muzzle energy as my .30-06 Springfield.

what you have just said, is exactly why they invented the boad tailed round, to improve accuracy. it was a work in progress.

The boat tail was in use before the .50BMG was designed. Agreeing on one point to save face doesn't at all change the fact that your argument is based on incredibly flawed perceptions of the energies involved and how they are transferred.

 

[Danzaivar]

Take the shot, you can get therapy for the inevitable breakdown from killing kids. The people dead from the genocide? Not so much.

 

[Exocet]

Too bad for the children,it really is,but simply put,if that dictator is getting alot of people killed(including children),then I would have to take the shot.
Sure,having the deaths of innocent people weighing on my conscience would be tough,but it's a small sacrifice to pay for saving a lot more people.

 

[Dastardly]

=SNIP=

A better "no-win" scenario employing a similar idea would have been:

You're head of a military operation centered around overthrowing a dictator. You have received reliable intelligence that tells you the dictator is in a bunker, but he'll be leaving in the next half hour. One bomb could end the war, and you could get it there in time if you act now.

The downside--it's the middle of the day, and the bunker was built under a school. This is your chance, but do you take it?

Very similar situations happen all the time where attackers/terrorists/etc will be firing from a school or orphanage or church, knowing full well the "good guys" won't be allowed to return fire for fear of hitting the innocent.


And to answer:

Yes. You shoot or bomb the guy despite the "human shield" he has put up. Your responsibility is to take this man out so he can't do that kind of stuff anymore. And furthermore, HE brought them into the equation. HE is responsible for any innocent victims, not you.

 

[copperflyingace]

Shoot the bastard. Also, who was the dumbass who only gave me one type of bullet, and one type of gun? And where the hell is my spotter? He should have a gun with slightly less power than a .50 cal.

 

[imnot]

shoot i dont care about the children, they arent exactaly worth any, i mean millions of lives

 

[Czargent Sane]

I would shoot someone who had a gun that didnt fire grenades, and use that.

or get some elevation on the dictator

and unless there are about thirty little kids, I should be able to aim past, or only wound, one of them and still get to the dictator.

If I see a six foot tall sixteen year old, I assume he is an enemy guard of some sort and I shoot him.