Some people think I like calling games sexist. This just isn't true.

[Something Amyss]

The whole sexism/feminism thing can go straight to hell. I honestly don't see why its bad to develop a particular for one demographic. Japan seems to be doing that with its comics, shows, and games and their society doesn't seem to be imploding.

Just so we're clear, we're talking about the same society that needs separate train cars for women because of the rampant groping and such going on, right? That Japan?

Maybe you don't want to use them as an example of a robust society as far as this goes....

 

[grassgremlin]

. . . should one game be made to make everyone happy?


My biggest worry about these conversations of sexism, isn't whether or not we get more diverse games. I'm all for it. No, my biggest worry is that people will want all games to have a puritan mentality.

I fear the death of sex-positivity in order to not appear "sexist."

Here's my remedy for all this. I want more sexy male characters. As a future game creator, that's something I'm gonna be doing. And if I can even out the playing field then we wouldn't be constantly having these conversations.

No! No no no no no! That is the last thing that I want! I love sex positivity. My frustration is not showing that women enjoy sex, just writers falling into sterotypes and pandering when it's at the sake of the story and tone.

And more sexy male characters? Yes please! Why can't we get more characters like the Pillar Men from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure

http://38.media.tumblr.com/57565e3ae9144dc0eefa44210bc5e257/tumblr_nbig47BgAm1s755fuo1_500.png

As the biggest fan of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, I approve of this reply so hard.
Have you ever played Jojo's Bizarre Adventure All Star Battle?

Yes, the game ran at 30fps even though it was a fighting game. But I couldn't stop playing it.
Why? Not just because it was a fighting game of my favorite franchise, but because it was something different.

The whole cast is made of absurdly attractive men. I can't see why their is more then that.
I'm sure someone will whine and says "It's too gay" well last I checked Dead or Alive has a Lesbian demograph.

I'd complain less if I could play the kinds of male characters I want to play. XD

 

[Gamer87]

The whole sexism/feminism thing can go straight to hell. I honestly don't see why its bad to develop a particular for one demographic. Japan seems to be doing that with its comics, shows, and games and their society doesn't seem to be imploding.

Captcha: Join the millions. I have a feeling its telling me that I'm not on my own in thinking this way

But if something is only being made for one demographic, wouldn't you be a sad panda if you were not in that demographic and wanted it too? Try empathy.

 

[Adam Lester]

Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Want to spot a protagonist? Look no further than the guy on the street that looks like a glam rocker built like a brick shithouse.

Seriously. Look at Jotaro...whose supposed to be like 16. He looks/sounds like he's 30 and stands 7' tall.

 

[grassgremlin]

My biggest worry about these conversations of sexism, isn't whether or not we get more diverse games. I'm all for it. No, my biggest worry is that people will want all games to have a puritan mentality.

Your biggest concern is something which virtually nobody has ever stated or desired?

Do you find this to be a particularly reasonable or warranted fear?

Polygons review of Bayonetta had me a bit concerned with what constitutes as "sexist."

 

[VanQ]

and here i'am not giving a damn ether way playing Senran Kagura Shinovi Versus enjoying jiggly boobies. Seriously guys you all need to relax

Thank God that developers like Taka Kenichiro still exist and aren't caving in to social justice pressure. The man is a god that understands what my inner 16 year old needs.

https://twitter.com/kenichiro_taka/status/281205268350660609

This tweet changed my life.

 

[Andrey Sirotin]

Some people act like I get some kind of thrill out of seeing sexism in gaming. I don't. I hate it. I hate seeing these problems everywhere. I hate games I love grinding to a halt because the alarms in my head are going off. I hate not being able to enjoy the brilliant atmosphere of Metro Last Light as much as I could because there's a little voice in the back of my head reminding me all the female characters are prostitutes, caretakers or victims. I hate the fact that even though Persona 4 has some of the best female characters I've ever seen it still delves into bullshit by having it being understandable when Naoto is afraid because "She's a girl". I hate that Fire Emblem Awakening has a beautifully written mother-daughter relationship that is marred by the fact that there's a female exclusive class called the bride and that sexual assault is apparently funny when a woman does it to a man.

It makes me want to crawl into a crack and cry myself to sleep. In fact I've been doing a fair bit of crying tonight because of it. I just...I just want to sit down and be able to enjoy something without having the part of me that cares noticing another stupid flaw in an otherwise brilliant work. It tears me apart and it just makes me want to scream "CAN SOMEONE JUST FUCKING GET IT RIGHT ALREADY!?" It's just these little moments in otherwise great games, games that I love, that make me just want to scream "WHY!?"

I'm sorry if I'm rambling a bit. But I've seen more than one person say that people keep calling games sexist because it lets me feel self righteous. That's not true. It just isn't. Sometimes I wish I could just turn it all off and not care...but I just can't.

I love games. And it makes me want to cry when they fall short like this. They could be so much more...but they keep tripping. Please. Someone out there. Please get it right. I'm tired of cross examining every single game a play for stupid STUPID mistakes. They just bring the experience down.

I just wanted to share why I keep talking about sexism in gaming. Because I want games to improve so I can just lie down and breathe easy. So I don't have to worry about bullshit around every corner.

I'm sorry, but have you ever touched any other piece of post-apocalyptic fiction(Vic and Blood, Mad Max, Fallout, Wasteland)? That sort of situation brings out the shittiest qualities in people. Theft, murder, and cannibalism are seen as way more forgivable in that sort of fiction than in real life. Why would be prostitution during that period seem out of place? It looks like basic act of survival. Or are you surprised that bandits go after the weak? We are not androgynous specie; it's only logical that a physically strong scumbags(who happen to be sexist) will go after people who can not defend themselves. And since when being a nurse is considered to be a bad thing?
You have a warped perception on what sexism is. A piece of fiction that uses sexism as an element is not automatically sexist. Because if that was the case, you could have made a case for Metro games supporting Communist, Nazi, and genocidal ideals. Art should not strive to be politically correct because politically correct art is equivalent to elevator music(Nobody is pleased!).

 

[crypticracer]

I understand where your coming from. What get's me angry in all of this isn't even the games, I get angry when I see the lack of empathy, the disgusting excuses, and complete misunderstanding in these threads and posts.

Asking for some equality DOES NOT mean we want to take away your games. People think we're their enemy, the enemy of video games, instead of loving games like they do.

Even in this thread we have people saying basically "Man UP!" as if that helps at all. We also have people saying "Just stop playing games they aren't that important. They are important to us, that's why we discuss them.

A little more empathy people. Consider that maybe some people who aren't you, also like things you like. I have never gotten "Angry" at a game. But other people who play games? Oh yeah, they make me angry. I try to post when I'm calm but the more I read, it becomes harder to not post angry. I try and step back when I can, but fail once in a while.

 

[CaitSeith]

It makes me want to crawl into a crack and cry myself to sleep. In fact I've been doing a fair bit of crying tonight because of it. I just...I just want to sit down and be able to enjoy something without having the part of me that cares noticing another stupid flaw in an otherwise brilliant work. It tears me apart and it just makes me want to scream "CAN SOMEONE JUST FUCKING GET IT RIGHT ALREADY!?" It's just these little moments in otherwise great games, games that I love, that make me just want to scream "WHY!?"

That kinda reminds me Jim Bonacci's frustration over videogames physics (more preciselly how unrealistically the characters fell down the vehicles and harmlessly bounced around, or used the same animation over and over). So he made his own game where crashing had crippling consequences on the characters, and lo and behold: Happy Wheels was born.

Maybe one day someone will make a non-sexist perfect videogame masterpiece. But probably it won't come from the same source that makes you cry at night...

PS Captcha: believe me

 

[HyperionToASatyr]

Bless this fucking OP. Never give up, Ert. The sexist/misogynistic horseshit in this fandom is on its way out thanks to people like you.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

....I'm so happy that you find my emotional turmoil to be FUNNY. For the record, I get upset over stupid shit. I have depression and I'm on pills to help deal with it, so I would appreciate it if you didn't LAUGH at me THANK YOU VERY MUCH! Because guess what? THAT MAKES IT WORSE!

Did I ever say they have it out for me? Where did I say that? I said that developers made stupid mistakes. Over and over and over again.

Where did I say that? Where!? If you going to criticize my argument, can you please take the time to analyze it properly?

I realize that this post is from earlier in the thread and I know that you and I don't really agree on the core stuff here...but...

It may be a good idea for you to take a step back for a little while? Maybe play some sufficiently "neutral" games or, perhaps better, avoid gaming and these forums? At least for a bit.

Ya seem to be getting progressively more stressed out by these discussions and issues. To, what seems to be, a really unhealthy degree.

I mean, just because I disagree with some of your assertions doesn't mean I want ya wrecking your psyche over this junk.

Take a non-condescending gif.

Calm yo self, brah.

 

[Erttheking]

Some people act like I get some kind of thrill out of seeing sexism in gaming. I don't. I hate it. I hate seeing these problems everywhere. I hate games I love grinding to a halt because the alarms in my head are going off. I hate not being able to enjoy the brilliant atmosphere of Metro Last Light as much as I could because there's a little voice in the back of my head reminding me all the female characters are prostitutes, caretakers or victims. I hate the fact that even though Persona 4 has some of the best female characters I've ever seen it still delves into bullshit by having it being understandable when Naoto is afraid because "She's a girl". I hate that Fire Emblem Awakening has a beautifully written mother-daughter relationship that is marred by the fact that there's a female exclusive class called the bride and that sexual assault is apparently funny when a woman does it to a man.

It makes me want to crawl into a crack and cry myself to sleep. In fact I've been doing a fair bit of crying tonight because of it. I just...I just want to sit down and be able to enjoy something without having the part of me that cares noticing another stupid flaw in an otherwise brilliant work. It tears me apart and it just makes me want to scream "CAN SOMEONE JUST FUCKING GET IT RIGHT ALREADY!?" It's just these little moments in otherwise great games, games that I love, that make me just want to scream "WHY!?"

I'm sorry if I'm rambling a bit. But I've seen more than one person say that people keep calling games sexist because it lets me feel self righteous. That's not true. It just isn't. Sometimes I wish I could just turn it all off and not care...but I just can't.

I love games. And it makes me want to cry when they fall short like this. They could be so much more...but they keep tripping. Please. Someone out there. Please get it right. I'm tired of cross examining every single game a play for stupid STUPID mistakes. They just bring the experience down.

I just wanted to share why I keep talking about sexism in gaming. Because I want games to improve so I can just lie down and breathe easy. So I don't have to worry about bullshit around every corner.

I'm sorry, but have you ever touched any other piece of post-apocalyptic fiction(Vic and Blood, Mad Max, Fallout, Wasteland)? That sort of situation brings out the shittiest qualities in people. Theft, murder, and cannibalism are seen as way more forgivable in that sort of fiction than in real life. Why would be prostitution during that period seem out of place? It looks like basic act of survival. Or are you surprised that bandits go after the weak? We are not androgynous specie; it's only logical that a physically strong scumbags(who happen to be sexist) will go after people who can not defend themselves. And since when being a nurse is considered to be a bad thing?
You have a warped perception on what sexism is. A piece of fiction that uses sexism as an element is not automatically sexist. Because if that was the case, you could have made a case for Metro games supporting Communist, Nazi, and genocidal ideals. Art should not strive to be politically correct because politically correct art is equivalent to elevator music(Nobody is pleased!).

It's out of place when those make up 50% of the female cast, and the rest of the cast isn't particularly impressive.

 

[veloper]

It makes me want to crawl into a crack and cry myself to sleep. In fact I've been doing a fair bit of crying tonight because of it. I just...I just want to sit down and be able to enjoy something without having the part of me that cares noticing another stupid flaw in an otherwise brilliant work. It tears me apart and it just makes me want to scream "CAN SOMEONE JUST FUCKING GET IT RIGHT ALREADY!?" It's just these little moments in otherwise great games, games that I love, that make me just want to scream "WHY!?"

I'm going to try to put this gently: try not to care do much about games. Gaming is a hobby probably most posters here love, but it's still only fiction.

Feel free to call our sexy games shit or whatever you prefer, but never let such first world problems actually get to you.

 

[endtherapture]

It's out of place when those make up 50% of the female cast, and the rest of the cast isn't particularly impressive.

sigh

I think you expect too much from your games. Every female character does not need to be fleshed out with emotions. Some can be used as background decoration and flavour for the world. Not every character can be an amazingly well written in depth character with multiple backstories and motivations.

Using an enslaved woman as a prostitute is just saying..."wow look how barbaric and bad this is, beter be afriad of this dangerous uncivilised world".

 

[Ushiromiya Battler]

You know what Ert? I think that if we shouted about how much we wanted better writing and generally better games people would be more comfortable with adding minorities and women in gaming.
I feel like the way people are going about it now is more forcing the hand of the developers instead of encouraging.
And that's mostly my gripe about this whole thing, I feel people are going about this whole subject aggressively.

Though, my opinion probably don't mean much as I don't really play AAA games as I find them immensely boring.

 

[Artaneius]

Sounds like to me is that your treating gaming like it's real life where people are required to care about these kind of things. A video game like any other form in entertainment isn't suppose to be exactly like it is in reality. The whole paragraph can be summarized by a single sentence.

"I'm tired of playing video games because they aren't forced by law to care about minorities, woman, or anyone in general's feelings."

That's honestly what it boils down too. Your expecting something that should not be treated super seriously to be super serious. Remember when the word "tourneytard" was going around about 10 years ago? People who treated casual games like smash way too seriously and expected everyone else to do the same. That's exactly what your doing right now. Your expecting people in an entertainment business to do the exact opposite of what the entertainment business is suppose to do. Take us away from shitty over-regulated reality full of work, responsibilities, and random bs.

 

[Something Amyss]

Polygons review of Bayonetta had me a bit concerned with what constitutes as "sexist."

I'm not sure how you get to "every game must be" whatever from there.

The game kind of is sexist, though. I'm still not sure how that's an issue. There's a large body of criticism not because every game has to change, but because within the market, virtually every game is culpable.

Is Bayonetta your idea of "sex positive?"

 

[prpshrt]

The whole sexism/feminism thing can go straight to hell. I honestly don't see why its bad to develop a particular for one demographic. Japan seems to be doing that with its comics, shows, and games and their society doesn't seem to be imploding.

Captcha: Join the millions. I have a feeling its telling me that I'm not on my own in thinking this way

But if something is only being made for one demographic, wouldn't you be a sad panda if you were not in that demographic and wanted it too? Try empathy.

Why would I be a sad panda if ONE game was made to appeal to a certain demographic? I just wouldn't like it and go play another one. I'm simply saying the if a game doesn't appeal to everyone, it shouldn't have stake driven through it. I should also say that if any frustration is emanating from my comments, its because of THAT collection of issues.

 

[prpshrt]

The whole sexism/feminism thing can go straight to hell. I honestly don't see why its bad to develop a particular for one demographic. Japan seems to be doing that with its comics, shows, and games and their society doesn't seem to be imploding.

Just so we're clear, we're talking about the same society that needs separate train cars for women because of the rampant groping and such going on, right? That Japan?

Maybe you don't want to use them as an example of a robust society as far as this goes....

Did not know this <_<
Well I still standby what I said tho (minus the japan thing because of what you've mentioned) :\

 

[Shingro]

Polygons review of Bayonetta had me a bit concerned with what constitutes as "sexist."

I'm not sure how you get to "every game must be" whatever from there.

The game kind of is sexist, though. I'm still not sure how that's an issue. There's a large body of criticism not because every game has to change, but because within the market, virtually every game is culpable.

Is Bayonetta your idea of "sex positive?"

The sexually confident women who is beholden to no men whatsoever? Who actively rejects needing to be saved by the male lead?

the one who is a member of a member of an all-female coven who fights a literal patriarchy cloaked in angelic appearances but secretly detestable and horrifying underneath?

Her original design drafted by a woman too even, Bayonetta is basically a third wave feminism love letter.

you're right, I can't *imagine* how anyone could even think she's a positive example of sexuality in video games.

Why it's practically not worth discussing. Am I right, or am I right?