The Avengers and Hawkeye [Mass Opinion Centered]

[Crazy Zaul]

The avengers hawkeye was quite good, but normally hes lame, especially that stupid pink costume.
Green arrow, despite being pretty much the same, is somehow much better.

And yer, batman pretty much does have superpowers. There is no way his belt could really hold that many gadgets and a decent amount of batarangs and bat grenades, as well a that big rock of kryptonite he always caries round, a gas mask just in case, a supply if cryo grenades in case clayface turns up and whatever else.

Unless the little bags on the belt it are Galiphrayan technology, his superpower is to have an inventory like a Dovakiin with high stamina.

 

[sabercrusader]

Who thinks he's lame? If anything, I thought he kicked more ass than Captain America did. Certainly more than Black Widow at the very least. Hawkeye was done fairly well I thought. Hell, he even got a decent amount of screen time when you consider that Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, and Cap are all more popular characters with the public.

 

[malestrithe]

I like Hawkeye as a character. I much prefer the 616 version over the Ultimates version, but that's a personal issue. He feels wasted in this movie, however. His role could have easily been filled by Coulson, Hill, or Mockingbird, or any of the other Badass normals SHIELD employs.

As far as Badass normals go, I find him more believable than a certain bat fetishist who could do so much better things with his money than act out his childhood revenge fantasies on a nightly basis. Wayne Tech is producing technology that is easily the rival of Lexcorp, but he sits on the most advance stuff. Sure Luthor might sit on the best items also, but he gives away a lot of his tech the Metropolis Police Department.

For Hawkeye, it is a job and nothing else. He does not act out his revenge fantasies because he does not have any. He is doing bad things for the right reasons.

This is in reply with everyone, YES. Joss Whedon is amazing with team balancing and just having a team blend well together. I personally wouldn't had thought Bruce and Tony would become best buddies, and Black Widow as a character was pretty threatening.

Yeah, that had more to do with an excellent script and excellent actors than the director. Not a knock against Whedon, I think he is a great director, one of the best working today, but I did not get a sense of Whedon's personal style in anything but directing. From what I gathered from production and post filming stuff, Whedon had control over the shots, where he pointed the camera, how the actors delivered the lines, and little else. He was told to film what was written and not to deviate from it. Sure he might had some control over editing, but Disney and Marvel had more control over the project than he did.

 

[malestrithe]

And yer, batman pretty much does have superpowers. There is no way his belt could really hold that many gadgets and a decent amount of batarangs and bat grenades, as well a that big rock of kryptonite he always caries round, a gas mask just in case, a supply if cryo grenades in case clayface turns up and whatever else.

Batman has the writer fiat (choice) superpower. He has exactly what he needs when he needs it.
His Wayne tech is easily just as good as Lexcorp tech, but Wayne Tech invests in miniaturization and concealment. He knows all sorts of Martial Arts when he needs them. He can counter any opponent when he wants to, but would rather play with his catch a little more than he should. He also knows the right moment to spring information, information he may or may not had earlier. He also has PhD level understanding of pretty much everything in existence. All of these he gains when the writers think he needs them.

The only other character that has Writer Fiat as a superpower is the Joker.

 

[Syzygy23]

Alright...I need to get this out. Like many people, I saw the Avengers movie and like many people I thought it was awesome. My main problem right now is the community reaction to the characters. Yes, Ironman, Captain America, The Hulk and Thor are all the main focal points, Hawkeye and Black Widow being the two side projects that wandered in to complete the original team, but really. Black Widow has nothing but "Lolboobs" everywhere I go and Hawkeye is called lame for using a bow.

Let's get this straight. Hawkeye, a secret agent who has dead-accurate aim and could pinpoint an arrow to pierce through your clothing, skin, ribs and heart at the perfect angel to kill you instantly, is lame? What kind of thinking is that? Did we watch the same movie? The guy, with ONE FUCKING ARROW makes an explosion so large in the Shield aircraft's turbine that the whole thing was at risk to plummet. Not to mention, did you see him miss a shot during that last battle? The guy is smart as all fuck, too. He knew Loki would catch his arrow, so he shoots and explosive arrow to him and blows it in his face. Really, the mere thought of stating this guy is lame baffles. Even in Comparison to the other Avengers.

But the Team already HAS the Hulk, and he's the strongest there is, and Tony Stark brings the smarts, soooo.... Why is Hawkeye here? His only power is "Really good at archery". Wow, uh, that's... great... I guess? Here's the deal, though: The rest of the Avengers fight shit that can punch a bus through 3 skyscapers on a daily basis. The MINIMUM requirement for joining this team is that you be bullet proof. Are you bullet proof? No, wearing purple fish scales does not make you bullet proof, you'll still get bruised to hell and back, possibly die from internal bleeding.

I hate when people point out that Black Widow, Hawkeye and Captain America to a lesser extent are underpowered. It's not like it's a choice between Hawkeye or Thor, it's both on the team, one doing subtle stuff, they other being the big guy. You get both.

Hawkeye has always been cool. What I found interesting is they didn't even try to use some of the Ultimates stuff (enhanced vision from a supersoldier program) as an excuse for his badassery, rather the regular "He's just super good with a bow".

Except why have Hawkeye on the payroll when you could have spiderman? Or literally ANY other marvel hero with actual POWERS except for maybe Deadpool.

Captcha: CHANGE YOURSELF. If only you could, hawkeye, if only you could...

 

[Blow_Pop]

Having not seen the movie yet (though I probably will this weekend), I would say that you're right when basing you opinions on not only the movie (that I haven't seen yet) and other sources (comic books). I would like to say though, I don't think that casting Jeremy Renner was exactly the right move for Hawkeye. My initial reaction (again, having not seen the movie) is that he doesn't fit the character. He's a great actor for sure but I'm not sure if he was a great choice for the part. I'll have to see that when I see it.

I think he fit the role just fine. Being a Hawkeye fangirl for like practically ever(ok elementary school).

OT: I hate that Natasha(Black Widow) is seen as just being "eye candy" in the film. It's like the fact that she is a spy and great at martial arts completely goes over everyone's heads. And the fact that

Spoiler: spoiler alert do not read this if you do not want part of the film spoiled

she feels loyalty towards the team because Clint was sent to kill her but instead didn't as such she joined the team.

What they don't tell about Clint is that he does have some natural archery skill but he had to hone in his skills. And yes some of the things that happen in the film are very improbable (ie: shooting behind him without looking and hitting his target) but maybe it's me and archers have always just had a special place in my heart. [sub][sub][sub]and the fact that I'm good at archery and love it and find it relaxing[/sub][/sub][/sub]

If you could have either a full flying spiffy-looking suit of power armor with a built-in link to your personal assistant AI or a pretty usual-looking modern bow and a quiver that screws a variety of arrowheads on yout arrows, which one would you want?

Honestly? The bow and quiver of arrows. Hands down every time.

Renner doesn't really play Hawkeye at all like comic book hawkeye. He's mostly generic super-capable badass. That said, Renner fills that role very well, and in general, I feel that that interpretation fits the movie better than a purple-clad guy challenging authority at every turn would. Someone coming in with no knowledge of the character would appreciate him just fine

I fully agree. Though I do miss the ridiculous looking purple outfit.

 

[Goldhawk777]

Iron Man: If you shoot him, he dies, he has no powers

Not technically true. The power unit in his chest superpowered his brain giving him insane multitasking capabilities and a preterhuman ability to absorb information. i.e. becoming an expert in quantum physics over night.

In the latest comics he's also injected himself with nanites that give him a just below Logan class healing factor.

Movie. Not comics. Because in the comics, people come back from the dead every thursday.

 

[RedDeadFred]

It's not that using a bow was lame or he wasn't cool enough. It was the whole thing between him and Black Widow. It just felt really awkward and forced to me. Their characters were just really underdeveloped (for obvious reasons) to the others and I found it hard to care about them.

 

[Darthbawls77]

The only major issue I have with Hawkeye is that he was missing his wolverine knock off mask which I always liked on him, even his more modern ultimate mask would have worked but it seemed the actor wanted his pretty face showing at all times. And also wasnt a fan of his outfit, I understand some alterations had to be made but it looked nothing like his normal outfit and it def didnt have the colors even if they were bright and dark purple or w/e they could have made it work, if they made a giant GREEN MAN WORK THEN THEY CAN MAKE A PURPLE OUTFIT BADASS OKAY! And not even to mention he wasnt a cocky talking awesome dude, I know he was under mind control alot but when he snapped out of it I just wanted a little bit. But seeing how he even said it was fucked up to have your body out of your control so I will accept that he went thru some serious shit so I can see how he wasnt in a joking mood. His quiver was also super super cool, didnt not expect something cool like that cause him showing off his bow got old after his first "hey guys my bow collapses its cool."

 

[thehorror2]

I think the problem with Hawkeye, if there is one, is in something like the Uncanny Valley. Certain levels of abstraction are fine. A robot that's only vaguely humanoid (eg: it has eyes that can produce something like human expressions, like WALL-E) is fine and can even be adorable in the right context. Stuff that's trying to look perfectly human but fails sets something off in our brains and we don't like it and find it creepy, even if it takes an otherwise appealing form (like a pretty girl)

Something similar happens with Hawkeye, but in terms of plausibility. It's utterly impossible to do what Thor does, but he's obviously getting magical assistance so we let it slide. The Iron Man suit is way beyond anything possible with today's technology, but whatever, Tony Stark's a comic-book supergenius. Captain America is practically superhuman and wearing a frigging flag as a costume, so his acrobatics and such we let slide. Black Widow doesn't actually do TOO much that's beyond what people can really do with lots of practice and conditioning, and she's hot enough to ignore the fact that people who can do what she does IRL don't look like that. Hawkeye, on the other hand, is supposedly just a normal guy with some nifty gear and a penchant for a particular weapon. The things he does with his bow are well beyond what a normal person could be expected to do in a combat situation, and it is this disconnect that causes the grumbling about realism. Is it realistic that "guy-with-a-bow" can hang with "thunder-god," "flying-tank," "super-soldier," and "green giant"? Hell no. But it wouldn't be as fun or cool to watch if the little guy didn't get the chance to be stupendously cool for at least a little while.

 

[CODE-D]

Alright...I need to get this out. Like many people, I saw the Avengers movie and like many people I thought it was awesome. My main problem right now is the community reaction to the characters. Yes, Ironman, Captain America, The Hulk and Thor are all the main focal points, Hawkeye and Black Widow being the two side projects that wandered in to complete the original team, but really. Black Widow has nothing but "Lolboobs" everywhere I go and Hawkeye is called lame for using a bow.

Let's get this straight. Hawkeye, a secret agent who has dead-accurate aim and could pinpoint an arrow to pierce through your clothing, skin, ribs and heart at the perfect angel to kill you instantly, is lame? What kind of thinking is that? Did we watch the same movie? The guy, with ONE FUCKING ARROW makes an explosion so large in the Shield aircraft's turbine that the whole thing was at risk to plummet. Not to mention, did you see him miss a shot during that last battle? The guy is smart as all fuck, too. He knew Loki would catch his arrow, so he shoots and explosive arrow to him and blows it in his face. Really, the mere thought of stating this guy is lame baffles. Even in Comparison to the other Avengers.

My problem was that he was accurate 100% of the time even when not looking and there was that plug arrow.....sigh.
Otherwise he was fine but I dont care about him.

 

[Jonluw]

Hawkeye isn't lame as such. He's a lot like batman.
But he isn't super human in any capacity. The same goes for Black widow. I don't know what they're doing there.

They would be cool if they had their own movie(s), but when they're set up to play beside a)A god, b)An artificially engineered super-soldier, c)A guy in flying indestructo-armor with guns strapped all over it and d)A practically unkillable troll that's stronger than anything on earth, they end up sort of pale and boring.

Let me use Black widow to make my point: Aside from her martial arts capability, her "power" is basically "gun". Well, there's a different guy there with super human strength, the ability to fly, and super-technological projectile weapons fixed to his entire body.
The only thing she brings to The avengers is basically the ability to cover one more angle. And boobs.

In the meantime: Spiderman isn't even included in the movie.
Hell, I'd even accept it if they used Ant man.

The only thing that lets Hawkeye do anything of value in the movie is the mercy of the writers.

 

[Frostbite3789]

more to do with an excellent script

Whedon was also the writer.

 

[malestrithe]

more to do with an excellent script

Whedon was also the writer.

No, he was not. He wrote this movie the same way he wrote Waterworld. He did some script doctoring after the fact, but he worked from an already established script from Zak Penn.

Sorry, but I know what Whedon's dialog sounds like. There were a few scenes that sound like him, but the rest sounded like someone else.

 

[AgentCooper]

Alright...I need to get this out. Like many people, I saw the Avengers movie and like many people I thought it was awesome. My main problem right now is the community reaction to the characters. Yes, Ironman, Captain America, The Hulk and Thor are all the main focal points, Hawkeye and Black Widow being the two side projects that wandered in to complete the original team, but really. Black Widow has nothing but "Lolboobs" everywhere I go and Hawkeye is called lame for using a bow.

Let's get this straight. Hawkeye, a secret agent who has dead-accurate aim and could pinpoint an arrow to pierce through your clothing, skin, ribs and heart at the perfect angel to kill you instantly, is lame? What kind of thinking is that? Did we watch the same movie? The guy, with ONE FUCKING ARROW makes an explosion so large in the Shield aircraft's turbine that the whole thing was at risk to plummet. Not to mention, did you see him miss a shot during that last battle? The guy is smart as all fuck, too. He knew Loki would catch his arrow, so he shoots and explosive arrow to him and blows it in his face. Really, the mere thought of stating this guy is lame baffles. Even in Comparison to the other Avengers.

But the Team already HAS the Hulk, and he's the strongest there is, and Tony Stark brings the smarts, soooo.... Why is Hawkeye here? His only power is "Really good at archery". Wow, uh, that's... great... I guess? Here's the deal, though: The rest of the Avengers fight shit that can punch a bus through 3 skyscapers on a daily basis. The MINIMUM requirement for joining this team is that you be bullet proof. Are you bullet proof? No, wearing purple fish scales does not make you bullet proof, you'll still get bruised to hell and back, possibly die from internal bleeding.

I hate when people point out that Black Widow, Hawkeye and Captain America to a lesser extent are underpowered. It's not like it's a choice between Hawkeye or Thor, it's both on the team, one doing subtle stuff, they other being the big guy. You get both.

Hawkeye has always been cool. What I found interesting is they didn't even try to use some of the Ultimates stuff (enhanced vision from a supersoldier program) as an excuse for his badassery, rather the regular "He's just super good with a bow".

Except why have Hawkeye on the payroll when you could have spiderman? Or literally ANY other marvel hero with actual POWERS except for maybe Deadpool.

Captcha: CHANGE YOURSELF. If only you could, hawkeye, if only you could...

Considering how Hawkeye is a highly trained assassin with super human archer abilities. The bow cycled through "trick" arrow tips so that he was not just another archer guy. He is fine wearing armor and just being a spotter for the rest of the team. His purpose is not to punch crap.

Also, Sony owns the movie rights to the Spiderman franchise. He won't be making any kind of appearance unless Disney buys the rights from Sony.