To the people who don't pirate: Is life really so bad?

[azadiscool]

yes, it has. a copy of the game was taken from its rightful owner. the cash value of that copy is also taken. its the same thing as if you reached into their pocket and plucked out a $50 bill every time you steal a copy of a game. as ive pointed out repeatedly you arent paying for the master when you buy a game, your paying for a *gasp* COPY, so when you STEAL a COPY its removing something of value from the owner. thus its theft.

as to cheezes noise, as usual he totaly misses the point and runs off chasing moon beams. hed rather split hairs than just admit hes wrong, in his defence though hes clearly not alone on this issue.

It is apparent that you lack the research to thoroughly conduct a justified argument. Torrents aren't physical copies of the software, they are links that let you copy the software from somebody who did pay for it. There is no loss of money, because the seller isn't spending money to make a copy of the game, just so it can be stolen. It's not like I pirate the game, and 40 bucks disappear from EA's bank account. Instead of ranting about stuff you don't understand you should *gasp* go fall in a vat of radioactive material.

 

[phalanfy]

look, i pirate for one reason, i cant find anywhere that i can find old pc games, its a commodity not sold by any reputable dealers, and I've had a lot of problems with direct to drive games, i bought it dl'd it and then my computer would crash and there goes my games unless i pony up some more cash(I'm told d2d is a lot better now but till... once burned twice shy) and steam is different does have a large collection of games but they don't have all the games i want to play. if they do i will purchase from them. as for buying via bay and craiglists again Ive been screwed over and am tired of pissing away my cash. if you can give me another option i'd be glad to here it

 

[Anton P. Nym]

yes, it has. a copy of the game was taken from its rightful owner. the cash value of that copy is also taken. its the same thing as if you reached into their pocket and plucked out a $50 bill every time you steal a copy of a game. as ive pointed out repeatedly you arent paying for the master when you buy a game, your paying for a *gasp* COPY, so when you STEAL a COPY its removing something of value from the owner. thus its theft.

It is apparent that you lack the research to thoroughly conduct a justified argument. Torrents aren't physical copies of the software, they are links that let you copy the software from somebody who did pay for it. There is no loss of money, because the seller isn't spending money to make a copy of the game, just so it can be stolen. It's not like I pirate the game, and 40 bucks disappear from EA's bank account.

No, it's you who's missed his point. Pirating a copy of the software means that the pirate can use the software without paying the people who created the software. So the value of the service has indeed been taken from the creators, and they get nothing in return. From that point of view, calling it "theft" isn't unreasonable. (Imprecise, maybe, but not so wrong as to be worth insulting him.)

I do have to wonder, though, at how many of those so hot to defend piracy have ever created anything worth pirating... if any of them have ever been (or will ever be) on the receiving end, watching a bunch of people taking free rides on their stuff while they're finding ways to pay the rent. It's one thing to advocate it when you know you'll feel the bite of it yourself; it's another altogether when you know you'll never have to face it in person.

-- Steve

 

[Meta Like That]

The internet, TiVO ain't.

So stealing using the cable that comes into your house is bad if you do it with your computer, but okay if you do it using your...computer with an aesthetically more pleasant form factor that you bought from TiVo?

No, it's worse. You just made it sound like the two were interchangeable. People pay for TiVo, not for the other crap they download off the net.

 

[KeithA45]

Maybe some people just don't have the cash to buy all their games, music etc.
Then again, pirating requires a moderately good PC in the first place.
Hmm...

Not at all. I run uTorrent on a 5 year old Compaq, and I've torrented pretty big stuff on worse computers. It takes up virtually no resources (although pretty much all your internet while it's on)

 

[Meta Like That]

The internet, TiVO ain't.

So stealing using the cable that comes into your house is bad if you do it with your computer, but okay if you do it using your...computer with an aesthetically more pleasant form factor that you bought from TiVo?

No, it's worse. You just made it sound like the two were interchangeable. People pay for TiVo, not for the other crap they download off the net.

I'm not sure of your point.

If you're saying TiVo is worse, then we're in agreement on how to look at the issue, even if we see it from a different point of view. I have no quarrel with that.

However, if you're saying downloading off the net is worse, how? When you pay TiVo, you pay TiVo, not the people who create the content that you record and commercial skip with your TiVo. Why should TiVo get money for helping you undercut the business model of the content creator?

That's like saying it's worse to download off the internet than it is to buy bootleg copies.

I was saying downloading off the net is worse is a piracy sense. I don't know much about TiVo besides the gist of it, so I don't know if there's any contract between the company and TV networks. If there isn't, I can see why TiVo is worse, in a business sense.

 

[Midnghtjade83]

Hey look everyone! It's super famous author Neil Gaiman! I really really REALLY want to read his book Coraline. However, I'm not sure if I'll like it and I'm kind of strapped for cash. But the need for entertainment outweighs all of these things.

I know! I'll "borrow" a copy from the library and use their free copy service (what library is this btw?) to make a copy of the book. Then put the book back on the shelf. Free for me. And I'm sure Neil Gaiman totally won't mind. I mean after all, I didn't STEAL the book. I didn't rob him, his publisher, his agent, etc. of the hard earned money they should have gotten from me for getting a copy of this, right?

EDIT: The arguments of pro-piracy people strike me as just another affirmation that our generation is so "ME ME ME" oriented that they will justify anything as long as their WANTS, not needs, are met.

 

[Midnghtjade83]

Oh Cheez! You ol' troll you.

Sorry hon, but I'm all out of troll food. Nice bridge you've got though. Cast the bait again.

 

[jemborg]

If you had no intention of paying them, yet you take what they made. That's stealing because you took property without being allowed to do so.

What property did I take? The software? No. The person I downloaded from still has his, noone lost their copy of it. The profit? No. They never had my money in the first place, and again - "You can't lose what you don't have". It's like saying you just stole my car. In what way? Well, I'm just assuming you were going to give me your car, and since you didn't, you clearly stole it from me.

Just like they just assume I was going to give them my money, and since I didn't, I clearly stole it from them.

I'm so sick and tired of the "you can't lose what you don't have" excuse. If I copy down your credit card info, you still have your card, so I didn't steal it right? If I then use that information to make purchases, I'm still not wrong because it's not like I took money you actually had right? The point is just because you're not actually taking something from someone doesn't make it right. Grow up and find a better excuse for your criminal activities. Or move somewhere where it's not a crime.

This excuse is way better than your atempt to discredit it.
Credit card: THE ORIGINAL OWNER WILL STILL HAVE TO PAY THE BILL!
if you copied some gold on the other hand...

But you can't lose what you don't have and you never actually had that money.

Yes you did. you had an agreement with the bank (or whatever) that you could lend money from them by using one of their personal issue credit cards. you also agreed that should you (or anyone else) ever use this card, you would pay it back with interests. so you lost money.

What the heck!! In Australia if someone uses MY credit card without permission that's called fraud. And the bank HAS to pay me back, that's part of the deal for getting my business. The bank doesn't do ME a favour for me using one of their CCs, I do THEM a favour. You were ripped off!

This even happened to a friend of mine the other day. He foolishly gave his number to a dodgy site and they took him for what they could. The bank paid back the money stolen sans the amount he initially agreed to pay to that site (about $600-$12AUS).

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Oh yes, my life is horrible. I need to go to work and earn money to buy stuff. Just like the rest of the world.

 

[Travisa]

The over zealous copy protection that hinders customers who buy the game legitimately is virtually useless. Pirates will still find a way (and they will) to pirate it and the paying customer gets screwed. Hard.

The only systems that I can see as moving in the right direction and programs like Steam, where you can buy (mostly) reasonably priced games online and have access to all the Steam functions such as unlimited download of that game, no disc required, access to Steam friends, server browsing and all that jazz.

 

[Xanadeas]

I admit that I pirate. I've only ever torrented one movie however. I rarely ever download music unless it's something I really like. Usually I just go to youtube and watch the music video.

I've pirated a handful of games at most and I never felt bad about it or guilty. I can't afford games, buying them is usually a very large waste of cash as I beat most in one or two days. (Six to twelve hours stretched out over a couple days really). Renting them isn't an option as there are no places where a person could RENT a PC game. It doesn't work. Therefore it's a matter of scrounging and saving up $60+ for a game or getting it for free, playing it, then deleting it when I feel there's no more replay value.

I /have/ pirated Morrowind and its expansions. However I own a retail copy of the game as well. The only thing is one copy is for the xbox and the copy I pirated is for the PC. I got the version for the PC for the sake of modding.

I don't have a way to justify what I do beyond saying that I don't feel bad for doing it. If a company really wants me to buy a game they should probably invest a bit more of their own cash into making it really good and worth owning. No more games that last four - six hours and have no replay value at all. I'm looking at you Prince of Persia and Lost Planet! Good games, yes, time consuming? No. I got an ACHIEVEMENT for beating Prince of Persia in under twelve hours... I wanted to cry.

 

[ovset]

I pirate music, games, TV shows, movies, software, books, and magazines.

Nope, that's it. No moral compensatory bullshit; I'm just kind of an asshole. Pirates who try to justify their behavior are just as stupid as the ethical perfectionists that condemn it.

Anti-pirates need to understand that stealing a digital copy of a game/movie/whatever does NOT hold the same moral weight as stealing a physical copy (or anything else), period. The biggest strawman arguments I see is "it's the same as taking $60 from the developer etc". Wrong. There is nothing being subtracted from anyone. You can't prove someone would have done THIS EXACT THING [pay for a game] had this VERY EXACT OPTION [piracy] not been available. This argument is a logical fallacy by its own nature; stop spewing it.

Pirates need to understand that they're still taking something for nothing, which is the underlying actions of piracy. It's also the very definition of STEALING, which YOU ARE DOING. You either stop throwing empty justifications around to help yourself sleep better at night or shut the fuck up and download. Accept that you're a part-time thief like the rest of us and continue down your path of moral apathy. Take solace in the fact that nobody's perfect and you got some free shit. Just don't be surprised if you get caught breaking the law.