WoW Player Claims Kicked from Guild for Being Deaf

[Aeshi]

Yeah raiding has some pretty harsh requirements, especially if you want to do the rewarding ones (Blizzard haven't nerfed THAT...yet...)

 

[Thwarted]

I used to play WoW till I got a new job a couple of months ago and had to quit. we had a deaf dps warrior who couldnt use vent in our 10 man team, we still managed 11/12 heroic ICC. people just need to be a little understanding.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

-snip-

You have, single-handed, given me the most explanatory reply in clear and precise words, using WoW logic to boot, on your opinion and I completely agree with you 100%. There are other parts of the story to take into account, like the fight that likely led to the banning, but this response was just superb and I agree. There are always alternatives to saying "no".

And believe it or not, I read every line.

 

[Kurokami]

My Thoughts: It's horrible what this person had to go through, I've been playing WoW on-and-off for about 5 years or so and to go through what he went through and THEN find himself kick/banned from his own guild, his friends, is horrible and I personally hope the guild leader is banned from WoW permanently, AT THE LEAST. What a terrible person the guild leader is.

They need to use vent to be efficient, if they place efficiency over friendship/socializing than it's their choice to make. He shouldn't be banned, hell I don't even look down at him. Sure I feel bad for the deaf guy, but this clearly isn't the guild for him anymore.

Oh, well sure the could be nicer but would any kind of other group acted any different?
If I join a soccer team for average players, but don't have any legs, they probably won't let me play or join in the first place.

But they'd let you play if you were deaf.

Seriously being deaf isn't like having no legs. Having legs is completely vital to play Soccer. Being Deaf is just a minor inconvenience like being deaf and playing soccer. Its not crippling.

Vent is a huge part of MMO's, I hate Mics and I hate MMO's, but that's just how it is.

 

[jaing1138]

Yeah, but when an employee becomes disabled through an accident or illness during their employment they don't fire them,because of lawsuits, my dad is listed as disabled due to Parkinson's disease and kent police didn't fire him, make him resign or medically retire him which they could have the moment he informed them, they let him carry on for 5 years until due to the cuts and the increasing difficulty of the illness affecting him he chose to retire. He couldn't go on active or potentially confrontationl duty but he could help behind the scenes, and with planning aka the tour de france and several events at bluewater (a shopping centre), even work on some operations and run training courses. The guild didn't need to kick him out is my point. Argueing about a leader not making reasonable decisions about your future (as melodramatic as that sounds i can't think of another way to put it) is not a bad thing it's to be expected. Other guilds for not taking him in is wrong but i can understand your point about employers trying not to take on disabled people for lawsuit reasons; its when an employee is forced out because he has recently been disabled that is my main issue.

 

[jaing1138]

Yeah, but when an employee becomes disabled through an accident or illness during their employment they don't fire them,because of lawsuits, my dad is listed as disabled due to Parkinson's disease and kent police didn't fire him, make him resign or medically retire him which they could have the moment he informed them, they let him carry on for 5 years until due to the cuts and the increasing difficulty of the illness affecting him he chose to retire. He couldn't go on active or potentially confrontationl duty but he could help behind the scenes, and with planning aka the tour de france and several events at bluewater (a shopping centre), even work on some operations and run training courses. The guild didn't need to kick him out is my point. Argueing about a leader not making reasonable decisions about your future (as melodramatic as that sounds i can't think of another way to put it) is not a bad thing it's to be expected. Other guilds for not taking him in is wrong but i can understand your point about employers trying not to take on disabled people for lawsuit reasons; its when an employee is forced out because he has recently been disabled that is my main issue.

This was a responce to this (the quote button was playing up):

Shoulda seen this coming.

Now, people online is a whole other story, but people in video games tend to not give two cents about someone's dissabilities, only that they can do a certain thing. It's sickening, but it's the sad truth unfortunatly.

I'm a little shocked i thought this thread would be like "dEm fuCkeRs shOuld DiE" but all im hearing is tough luck move on, a little support for the guy would be nice, people you call friends for 4 years stab you in the back and most people would be pissed at least and in his place they'd feel the same. If this was a real job then he could have sued their arse for discrimination but as its a game its acceptable for them to be dickheads about it. I'm the last person who should be saying this but these people need to sort their priorities out. Also they should grow a fucking conscience. I'm begining to believe the stereotypes that most wow players are sad, unsociable retards because of this. I hope this guy found a guild willing to take him in, if i played wow i would try seeking him out and offering help not shunning him like a leper.

You know that's why some companies don't wanna hire people who disabilities sometimes. Because they are a walking lawsuit, and if they were to try anything fear of being sued would happen because (in the US at least) we are sue happy and could easily throw discrimination around to get a easy win. Also the deaf kid did post other guilds didn't want him so...what about them, or the fact the kid and the guild master had a blow out which lead to him being blocked.

 

[Bogdan Carmaciu]

Is the gaming industry so bad we need something like an "Internet Disability Act"? Even if it`s "just a game" (in my view, if WoW would cease to exist, the world will be a better place), still, people play it and people should be compassionate to other people.

 

[Linakrbcs]

I can understand why its upsetting, but having someone in a raid who can't hear is a HUGE problem. At the moment DBM etc. aren't working properly, so this player would be a major liability, especially since in the new raids one person screwing up is usually a wipe. And if his guild was never that amazing to begin with they simply cannot afford to carry someone who can't pull his weight. Admittedly, kicking him from the guild is a bit harsh, but I fully agree with the no vent, no raid policy.

Edit: On the discrimination thing, if you can't do a job properly, why should you get it? That just makes no sense.

And I do sympathise with the OP, but he had no right to demand a raid spot under these conditions. That would make about as much sense as a guy in a wheelchair suing for discrimination because he didn't get into the high-jump team for the olympics

Also, on the working around him part, the only way to achieve that would be to let him die near the beginning of the fight and then carry on with 9 people. No good.

Also, he did say there was a major fight, so presumably his guild would have let him stay as a casual member, but he insisted on a raid spot. For that kind of silly, selfish behaviour, I would have kicked him too.

Oh, and one more thing, to all those saying its just a game, does that mean you shouldn't play it properly? An after-work or weekend soccer team is just playing a game too, but they still do their best to play well. And that means not having people on the team who are slowing everybody down, just because of some idiotic notion of political correctness

 

[SextusMaximus]

Well if he can't fucking manage to keep up in a guild - then the rest of the guild have a right to kick him out.

It's like a guy who lost his legs in an accident being "outraged" that he was kicked out of the National Athletics Society or something of that nature.

 

[Zannah]

Having someone in a raid that can't communicate over voice chat is a serious threat to all 9/24 other people playing (who have the same right of having fun as the deaf guy.)

Also, funny how most people fail to read that after he was told he couldn't raid with them, he got pissed and hat a blowout with the guild leader. And picking a fight if you disagree with a decision gets you kicked out of most sports teams / clans / guilds. And rightfully so.

 

[Lord Doomhammer]

maybe kicked from raid, but not kicked from guild, that is just shenanigans.

 

[Therumancer]

Reposted from BlogTechnical.com [http://www.blogtechnical.com/219/wow-player-kicked-from-guild-for-being-deaf.bt]

I didn't find this story by using the search bar, forgive me if it was already posted.

It seems being deaf can actually get you into a bit of trouble with one guild in the World of Warcraft.

User Unwelcomed explained that he recently was involved in an accident, resulting in his hearing being damaged significantly. As a result, he has had problems conversing with friends and listening to music. The whole ordeal bogged him down so he turned to World of Warcraft to lift his spirits. His guild seemed to be accepting of the matter for just a short time, but when they asked him if he could use the Vent voice chat servers, he said no but also mentioned that he could research raids and use DBMs.

This didn't solve the matter and he was kicked from the guild and ignored. Here is the full complaint:

• • Hey there thanks for clicking my post. This is going to be a bit lengthy.
    
    I recently had an accident that resulted in the permanent lose of my hearing. The last few months have been the hardest i have ever known. I have had to deal with never listening to music and talking to people has become exhausting.
    
    Its become that most people i thought were my friends just didn?t want to deal with me anymore as i had become inconvenient. I felt more alone than ever.
    
    So i came back to wow. Now I've been playing with my guild for about 4 years. We have all become close friends. We have even done some rl guild parties. I explained why i have been off for so long to the guild. I explained my condition. Everyone was pretty supportive for about 5 minutes.
    
    Do you know what the first question i got from my guild leader was? He asked me if i could still use vent. I told him no, but tried to assure him it wouldn't be a problem as i usually research the fights before hand and use dbm.
    
    He tells me that i can't raid unless i have vent. Guild rules and all. I was pissed. After a huge blow out between us i get removed from the guild and put on ignore. Our guild wasn't even that good. We did naxx full clear 10 man once.
    
    After that i cried. I didn't know what to do, who to turn to. I tried joining up with some other guilds but their response to why i can?t use vent went about the same.
    
    So i come to the forums to not only vent my frustrations but to find others with my condition. Are there any deaf friendly raiding guilds out there? Would you be willing to take me in? How have you dealt with being deaf?
    
    Any advice is appreciated, so long as its constructive.
    
    Thanks for letting me blow off some steam, typing this out has helped.
    
    TL;DR version
    Got deaf, got kicked, cried.
    
    Edit: I can't believe the responses i have received. My brother and i have been reading all of them and i have not felt such compassion in such a long time. (And from the wow forums no less lol) Its almost to much to handle. Now don't get me wrong, i'm 6?3 240 pounds built like a truck chef crying just isn?t something i do. lol But here i am making an exception.
    
    My brother and i have decided to make something out of our guild. The offers have been appreciated and noted. Thank You all again for the feedback it means more than you could ever know.

Haven?t they heard of text chat? Guess they don?t know about making exceptions. Luckily there are many other guilds that have non-Vent requirements, and some that cater to the deaf.

My Thoughts: It's horrible what this person had to go through, I've been playing WoW on-and-off for about 5 years or so and to go through what he went through and THEN find himself kick/banned from his own guild, his friends, is horrible and I personally hope the guild leader is banned from WoW permanently, AT THE LEAST. What a terrible person the guild leader is.

Actually, I think there is a part of this that is being overlooked. The statement "I came back to WoW".

What it seemed happened was that he had taken a break from World Of Warcraft, and when he became deaf he decided to return to the game. This means he showed up after a noteworthy absence (where he stopped playing) to a very competitive group of people, and then wanted to start raiding again where he'd be a serious inconveinence at best, and an outright liability at worst.

Not being able to talk on vent is one thing, not being able to hear vent and listen to the raid leader is something else entirely as even if you know the fight, being able to react quickly to instructions is a big deal. Even if typing during a fight like that wasn't potentially catastrophic (I honestly think most raid bosses are designed with the assumption people will have voice chat and certain types of mods nowadays), it's a pain in the nuts to have to type stuff out that you just said for the sake of one person.

Consider that even in amateur and semi-pro sports where there is little at stake, someone with an injury might also be kicked form a team even if everyone is their buddy. You blow a knee out, and it'st too bad, but that doesn't mean they are still going to let you play.

The biggest factor here though is simply that he quit and decided to come back though. Or so it would seem to me. All the above reasons aside, if he was playing regularly and this happened, chances are allowances would have been made. On the other hand on top of of everything consider that he has been replaced as part of the regular raid line up. What this means is that adding him in means that someone is going to wind up having to sit so he can raid. Returns of old friends can be handled in such situations, but when you add the disabillity issue and the inconveience, it's easy to see where they are coming from.

On top of all of this, and admittedly the most minor factor, is that people DO dull after extended absences, not to mention needing new gear. Jumping right into raiding effectively just doesn't happen. What's more Cataclysm in paticular is brutal in this regard since they have hardwired gear requirements. To enter heroics for example the game itself won't let you in the door if you don't have an overall gear level of 329 or better (which is now listed on your sheet). Incidently this means that a group of overpowered guildies can't drag an undergeared buddy through heroics, or geat them up in the raids themselves until they become more useful, things have to be done in sequence. What's more Blizzard decided to take the attitude that "heroics are serious business now" and the difficulty has spiked quite a bit beyond the basic level. I suspect this is because Cataclysm included far less high level content than previous expansions, and only 5 levels, so Blizzard wants to drag things out a bit more with what they have before their next expansion. It's a big factor now as well.

As far as the "it's a game" comments, this is true, but games are intended to be fun, and understand this guy might not be fun to play with for the other 9 to 24 people (or more if people would have to sit) involved.

I'll also be blunt in saying that there is probably more to this than we're hearing. Most guilds probably wouldn't have kicked him for this, but they probably would have put him on non-raiding status even if they are generally a raiders only guild, a social thing. In a practical sense (intent aside) this means he'd probably wind up doing dungeons with people between raids when they were bored and very slowly gear up. Eventually the time would come when they would be short on people, and despite everything the other 9 to 24 guys online would decide that giving him a shot or dealing with the frustration is better than not raiding. With time he'd get a chance to prove himself, and if it worked out, chances are he'd be right back to raiding.

My immediate guess is that when he showed up he expected allowances to be made due to long term involvement, and everyone to drop everything to get him back into raiding on what amount to his terms. When this wasn't going to happen he made a stink about it, and wound up getting kicked. The fact that he had friends in the guild probably meant that his prescence with that attitude would lead to drama. I've seen things like this happen over the years for situations like this even without the deafness issue.

Don't assume I have no sympathy for the guy (I have some serious issues IRL myself which I have mentioned, and have difficulty doing a lot of things). I am just saying that what happened here is actually quite understandable and probably not unreasonable. Put yourself in the shoes of the other people in the guild, or the guild leader who has to decide what's best for the other people in the guild. This might not be a nice thing on any level, but sometimes the guy(s) in charge have to make hard desicians, and this is why being the leader sucks. If this guy had all these friends in this guild as he says, I doubt this was an easy desician from the end of the leadership, or done all that callously.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

Actually, I think there is a part of this that is being overlooked. The statement "I came back to WoW".

What it seemed happened was that he had taken a break from World Of Warcraft, and when he became deaf he decided to return to the game. This means he showed up after a noteworthy absence (where he stopped playing) to a very competitive group of people, and then wanted to start raiding again where he'd be a serious inconveinence at best, and an outright liability at worst.

This is the statement I wanted to point out, not for any particular reason but for how it is implied in the original post I grabbed it from. First off, you made a LOT of very valid and agreeable points, so don't assume I'm ignoring everything you said in favor of this one statement, and the statement I made was in the beginning when I was "hang him!" and not "hear him out!" as it has been after 9 pages of reading what others had to say, so I'd love to hear his side and see what happened, alas, that's not likely.

But what I gathered from his statement was he came back to WoW after the accident, depending on how long he was recovering, it could have been a few months to a few days, so your point can still be made valid but due to missing factors it's hard to say. Still, I had assumed it wasn't a very long period of time and due to lack of information it's hard to say.

 

[Zeriah]

He wasn't kicked for being deaf, he got kicked for having a huge fight with the guild master. This is a huge difference! If he didn't have a fight with the GM (must have been pretty bad if he put him on ignore) he simply would not be able to raid with the guilds core group, but he would have been able to stay and continue his relationship with his friends.

Anyway he was told he could not raid because he could not use and listen to voice chat and while this is extreme, not being able to use Vent is a huge handicap for the guild as a whole - any on the fly changes made during fights (believe me, in raids you are not going to be able to stop doing anything for 20 seconds while u type something out, you would be dead in about 10 seconds) the deaf guy would have no idea about (this can easily cause wipes). You also have to consider that he was away from the game for months without letting anybody know where he was, this also could have been a factor in him not getting his raid spot back (maybe they used the deaf thing as an excuse?).

Overall its a douchey thing to do, unless you are a serious guild one person not using vent is probably not going to harm your overall progression much. On the other hand though it was apart of guild policy and he was away from the game for months without telling anybody...
To me this is not a huge injustice.

 

[Deleted]

If he told them he was deaf: they're being dicks.

If they didn't know: stop fucking stirring up bullshit

 

[Snotnarok]

Wow, what an asshole. I get that they might require people to be able to use something to know what's going on but for fucks sake he's been there for a while apparently and had a accident.

What's the friendliest thing he could muster? Kicking him out? I hope 4chan winds up finding this guy.

 

[vivster]

so what?

it's only normal that he can't do certain things if you are disabled
if i wanted to have a strong guild in a game where communication is essential i certainly would dismiss all deaf, blind and mute people(and stupid)

does that make me a bad person?
does it make an employer bad because he wants the most effective person for the job?

if there is anyone at fault here it is him for being to stupid to judge what real friends are
but most people make that mistake and mistaken internet friends for real friends

 

[binvjoh]

I think the saying: "It's a game" can be applied here to both parties.

Considering he had been through a rather tragic event and was looking for some escapism in WoW, I assure you it was more than "just a game" for him at the moment.

 

[Neosage]

Spoiler

Reposted from BlogTechnical.com [http://www.blogtechnical.com/219/wow-player-kicked-from-guild-for-being-deaf.bt]

I didn't find this story by using the search bar, forgive me if it was already posted.

It seems being deaf can actually get you into a bit of trouble with one guild in the World of Warcraft.

User Unwelcomed explained that he recently was involved in an accident, resulting in his hearing being damaged significantly. As a result, he has had problems conversing with friends and listening to music. The whole ordeal bogged him down so he turned to World of Warcraft to lift his spirits. His guild seemed to be accepting of the matter for just a short time, but when they asked him if he could use the Vent voice chat servers, he said no but also mentioned that he could research raids and use DBMs.

This didn't solve the matter and he was kicked from the guild and ignored. Here is the full complaint:

• • Hey there thanks for clicking my post. This is going to be a bit lengthy.
    
    I recently had an accident that resulted in the permanent lose of my hearing. The last few months have been the hardest i have ever known. I have had to deal with never listening to music and talking to people has become exhausting.
    
    Its become that most people i thought were my friends just didn?t want to deal with me anymore as i had become inconvenient. I felt more alone than ever.
    
    So i came back to wow. Now I've been playing with my guild for about 4 years. We have all become close friends. We have even done some rl guild parties. I explained why i have been off for so long to the guild. I explained my condition. Everyone was pretty supportive for about 5 minutes.
    
    Do you know what the first question i got from my guild leader was? He asked me if i could still use vent. I told him no, but tried to assure him it wouldn't be a problem as i usually research the fights before hand and use dbm.
    
    He tells me that i can't raid unless i have vent. Guild rules and all. I was pissed. After a huge blow out between us i get removed from the guild and put on ignore. Our guild wasn't even that good. We did naxx full clear 10 man once.
    
    After that i cried. I didn't know what to do, who to turn to. I tried joining up with some other guilds but their response to why i can?t use vent went about the same.
    
    So i come to the forums to not only vent my frustrations but to find others with my condition. Are there any deaf friendly raiding guilds out there? Would you be willing to take me in? How have you dealt with being deaf?
    
    Any advice is appreciated, so long as its constructive.
    
    Thanks for letting me blow off some steam, typing this out has helped.
    
    TL;DR version
    Got deaf, got kicked, cried.
    
    Edit: I can't believe the responses i have received. My brother and i have been reading all of them and i have not felt such compassion in such a long time. (And from the wow forums no less lol) Its almost to much to handle. Now don't get me wrong, i'm 6?3 240 pounds built like a truck chef crying just isn?t something i do. lol But here i am making an exception.
    
    My brother and i have decided to make something out of our guild. The offers have been appreciated and noted. Thank You all again for the feedback it means more than you could ever know.

Haven?t they heard of text chat? Guess they don?t know about making exceptions. Luckily there are many other guilds that have non-Vent requirements, and some that cater to the deaf.

My Thoughts: It's horrible what this person had to go through, I've been playing WoW on-and-off for about 5 years or so and to go through what he went through and THEN find himself kick/banned from his own guild, his friends, is horrible and I personally hope the guild leader is banned from WoW permanently, AT THE LEAST. What a terrible person the guild leader is.

Spoiler

Actually, I think there is a part of this that is being overlooked. The statement "I came back to WoW".

What it seemed happened was that he had taken a break from World Of Warcraft, and when he became deaf he decided to return to the game. This means he showed up after a noteworthy absence (where he stopped playing) to a very competitive group of people, and then wanted to start raiding again where he'd be a serious inconveinence at best, and an outright liability at worst.

Not being able to talk on vent is one thing, not being able to hear vent and listen to the raid leader is something else entirely as even if you know the fight, being able to react quickly to instructions is a big deal. Even if typing during a fight like that wasn't potentially catastrophic (I honestly think most raid bosses are designed with the assumption people will have voice chat and certain types of mods nowadays), it's a pain in the nuts to have to type stuff out that you just said for the sake of one person.

Consider that even in amateur and semi-pro sports where there is little at stake, someone with an injury might also be kicked form a team even if everyone is their buddy. You blow a knee out, and it'st too bad, but that doesn't mean they are still going to let you play.

The biggest factor here though is simply that he quit and decided to come back though. Or so it would seem to me. All the above reasons aside, if he was playing regularly and this happened, chances are allowances would have been made. On the other hand on top of of everything consider that he has been replaced as part of the regular raid line up. What this means is that adding him in means that someone is going to wind up having to sit so he can raid. Returns of old friends can be handled in such situations, but when you add the disabillity issue and the inconveience, it's easy to see where they are coming from.

On top of all of this, and admittedly the most minor factor, is that people DO dull after extended absences, not to mention needing new gear. Jumping right into raiding effectively just doesn't happen. What's more Cataclysm in paticular is brutal in this regard since they have hardwired gear requirements. To enter heroics for example the game itself won't let you in the door if you don't have an overall gear level of 329 or better (which is now listed on your sheet). Incidently this means that a group of overpowered guildies can't drag an undergeared buddy through heroics, or geat them up in the raids themselves until they become more useful, things have to be done in sequence. What's more Blizzard decided to take the attitude that "heroics are serious business now" and the difficulty has spiked quite a bit beyond the basic level. I suspect this is because Cataclysm included far less high level content than previous expansions, and only 5 levels, so Blizzard wants to drag things out a bit more with what they have before their next expansion. It's a big factor now as well.

As far as the "it's a game" comments, this is true, but games are intended to be fun, and understand this guy might not be fun to play with for the other 9 to 24 people (or more if people would have to sit) involved.

I'll also be blunt in saying that there is probably more to this than we're hearing. Most guilds probably wouldn't have kicked him for this, but they probably would have put him on non-raiding status even if they are generally a raiders only guild, a social thing. In a practical sense (intent aside) this means he'd probably wind up doing dungeons with people between raids when they were bored and very slowly gear up. Eventually the time would come when they would be short on people, and despite everything the other 9 to 24 guys online would decide that giving him a shot or dealing with the frustration is better than not raiding. With time he'd get a chance to prove himself, and if it worked out, chances are he'd be right back to raiding.

My immediate guess is that when he showed up he expected allowances to be made due to long term involvement, and everyone to drop everything to get him back into raiding on what amount to his terms. When this wasn't going to happen he made a stink about it, and wound up getting kicked. The fact that he had friends in the guild probably meant that his prescence with that attitude would lead to drama. I've seen things like this happen over the years for situations like this even without the deafness issue.

Don't assume I have no sympathy for the guy (I have some serious issues IRL myself which I have mentioned, and have difficulty doing a lot of things). I am just saying that what happened here is actually quite understandable and probably not unreasonable. Put yourself in the shoes of the other people in the guild, or the guild leader who has to decide what's best for the other people in the guild. This might not be a nice thing on any level, but sometimes the guy(s) in charge have to make hard desicians, and this is why being the leader sucks. If this guy had all these friends in this guild as he says, I doubt this was an easy desician from the end of the leadership, or done all that callously.

You forget the fact that he fought with the guild leader. As someone said, his report seems to imply he was kicked for being deaf. It appears to me that he was only kicked after fighting with the guild leader and that he wasn't necessarily going to be kicked for being unable to use vent.

But yes, I agree with your statement and I think the guild has every right to kick the guy. It's not their fault he's deaf and if he would be damaging the guild by raiding with them, then the guy would need to be booted; having said this though, I would be very surprised if this was indeed the case, as I'm sure they'd be some way round it.

Edit: To those who are sympathising, I would ask you to read who wrote the "complaint" and look into the possible bias demonstrated. I doubt we're getting the full story.