Slaughter in the Arctic circle??

[KnightRider0717]

does anyone else read this as though he said eating is morally questionable?

yes, pollutants are more important to deal with than seals being killed

Well, he does have a point when he says (and I'll try not to put words in his mouth, but) eating meat worse morally than a vegetarian diet. We can get the needed nutrients from a diet which is way less damaging than our current one but still choose the current one because we like it more. From a rational standpoint, we are actually doing something irrational.

i wouldn't say morally wrong. i don't think there's anything morally wrong with killing an animal for the sake of food to be wrong in any way. now, you may think that killing for the skin is wrong, but what do people do with the skin of the animal? sell it to make money and thus use that money for food if they wish to continue living so i still so need problem. i do see it being an issue to kill an animal only for the skin and then wasting the meat.

i also don't believe it's irrational as i've explained already about the digestive system. why would we decide to consume more food which other people may need to survive so that we get what our body requires to function. if we were evolved for favorably for digestion of plant materials i see how it's irrational, but choosing to consume more food when you could have a bit of meat is irrational

 

[ShaqLevick]

does anyone else read this as though he said eating is morally questionable?

yes, pollutants are more important to deal with than seals being killed

Well, he does have a point when he says (and I'll try not to put words in his mouth, but) eating meat worse morally than a vegetarian diet. We can get the needed nutrients from a diet which is way less damaging than our current one but still choose the current one because we like it more. From a rational standpoint, we are actually doing something irrational.

I'm reminded of Dr. Who last week when Britain was traversing the stars on the back of a space whale, it was an organism only the Dr. could understand with his science. Well, who is to say the life balance in any plant doesn't feel some sort of loss when severed from the host. Not quantifiable, but would it really matter in the long run? So Predators are evil? Well most species hunt children, a clearly inhuman act. Clearly we do indulge from time to time, but at least we're the best of the worst. Don't buy into the sanctity of life because it's a jungle out there, and a lot of the humans have already caught on.

 

[KnightRider0717]

does anyone else read this as though he said eating is morally questionable?

yes, pollutants are more important to deal with than seals being killed

Well, he does have a point when he says (and I'll try not to put words in his mouth, but) eating meat worse morally than a vegetarian diet. We can get the needed nutrients from a diet which is way less damaging than our current one but still choose the current one because we like it more. From a rational standpoint, we are actually doing something irrational.

I'm reminded of Dr. Who last week when Britain was traversing the stars on the back of a space whale, it was an organism only the Dr. could understand with his science. Well, who is to say the life balance in any plant doesn't feel some sort of loss when severed from the host. Not quantifiable, but would it really matter in the long run? So Predators are evil? Well most species hunt children, a clearly inhuman act. Clearly we do indulge from time to time, but at least we're the best of the worst. Don't buy into the sanctity of life because it's a jungle out there, and a lot of the humans have already caught on.

people tend to not think beyond the happy and peaceful world they see when they look out the window. they'd be stricken by how terrible the world is if they did

 

[dietpeachsnapple]

I am trying to decide if my inner misanthrope is going to write this one, or my inner optimist...

Both.

Money isn't evil - people are. We ship what we want via traffic ways that are most efficient, or because 'we have always done it that way.' We shrug when we have an impact on the environment; never prepared to take responsibility for our own messes. We engage in clubbings in a vain attempt to 're-balance,' the equations we have offset, likely causing more problems we can not yet foresee.

We are naive little children poking our fingers in the pie called 'Nature." When I say evil, I don't mean "maniacal laughter, take over the world," I mean, "Behaving in an irresponsible manner, ambivalent to the consequences of our actions... and maybe try and take over the world... quietly."

Ahem...

Then the other side.

To defend baby seals but not other species of animals that we kill regularly is thoroughly hypocritical. While I would not recommend it to any eugenicists, a club to the brain stem is fast and relatively painless. If one is busy doing a cost benefit analysis, it is cheaper than bullets, and potentially more effective.

I am suspicious of any implication that capitalism drove people to club baby seals, though I can see how capitalism had the effect of people clubbing baby seals. If one were to compare this to veal farms, perhaps, I think it would come into perspective.

Lastly, and perhaps most limp among my arguments, this is NOT the greatest atrocity, we as human beings, have to offer the world. We are doing a million other, more horrible, things every day, and these have been set aside because someone doesn't want me getting my slippers... is harming an adorable animal.

 

[ShaqLevick]

I can't even understand the OP. I know it's attempting to defend seal hunting, but somehow humanity "falls" to a pinnacle. How?

I also didn't understand the rest, but it insulted hippies, among others, so it sounds rather like a troll to me.

A troll, seriously... To start humanity is obviously on top of the food chain (or the pinnacle) and we're most definitely the apex predator in any environment. And Hippies, really. I mean who's a hippie anymore? Human society has broken down into so many classifications that in my opinion if you're not just a human being then you're hiding behind a persona, you could just be a scenester hippie freak. But words certainly mean very little to those that read between them.

You lost me when you called Paul McCartney an unbalanced drug addict :|

The man dropped a lot of acid, took a ride on a yellow submarine with his chums. Got wasted and lived a life of excess for years, I never said he was a fool but based on his credentials could never enter politics. However, the man wields more power with his words than most men dare dream.

 

[Sneaky-Pie]

This is my kind of thread.

If God didn't want us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of food?

Meat is just simply too good to go without.

Hate to tell you but you are made of food too. (Taste like pork by accounts I've read).

[Item] is made of food = we should eat that food = justify cannibalism?????

If you genuinely believe it is your God that says you should eat food however, then to quote Hermes Conrad: 'I respect your religious beliefs to the extent the law requires'

Heavy sigh.

 

[ShaqLevick]

I am trying to decide if my inner misanthrope is going to write this one, or my inner optimist...

Both.

Money isn't evil - people are. We ship what we want via traffic ways that are most efficient, or because 'we have always done it that way.' We shrug when we have an impact on the environment; never prepared to take responsibility for our own messes. We engage in clubbings in a vain attempt to 're-balance,' the equations we have offset, likely causing more problems we can not yet foresee.

We are naive little children poking our fingers in the pie called 'Nature." When I say evil, I don't mean "maniacal laughter, take over the world," I mean, "Behaving in an irresponsible manner, ambivalent to the consequences of our actions... and maybe try and take over the world... quietly."

Ahem...

Then the other side.

To defend baby seals but not other species of animals that we kill regularly is thoroughly hypocritical. While I would not recommend it to any eugenicists, a club to the brain stem is fast and relatively painless. If one is busy doing a cost benefit analysis, it is cheaper than bullets, and potentially more effective.

I am suspicious of any implication that capitalism drove people to club baby seals, though I can see how capitalism had the effect of people clubbing baby seals. If one were to compare this to veal farms, perhaps, I think it would come into perspective.

Lastly, and perhaps most limp among my arguments, this is NOT the greatest atrocity, we as human beings, have to offer the world. We are doing a million other, more horrible, things every day, and these have been set aside because someone doesn't want me getting my slippers... is harming an adorable animal.

You get it. Super long distance high five!

 

[Calgetorix]

I'm reminded of Dr. Who last week when Britain was traversing the stars on the back of a space whale, it was an organism only the Dr. could understand with his science. Well, who is to say the life balance in any plant doesn't feel some sort of loss when severed from the host. Not quantifiable, but would it really matter in the long run? So Predators are evil? Well most species hunt children, a clearly inhuman act. Clearly we do indulge from time to time, but at least we're the best of the worst. Don't buy into the sanctity of life because it's a jungle out there, and a lot of the humans have already caught on.

I'll happily eat meat but in moderation. The production of meat has a quite large invironmental impact as well, at least reletive to the production of "plants" (I can look for sources if you really care to listen to it but for now, I'm just going to say I read it on Wikipedia for now ; ) ).

I'm not saying meat is bad but I'm sure we'll survive without eating it every day.

 

[PinkAngelKitty]

And yet has done nothing to show that he is unstable, or that he is addicted to drugs. Actually I think that statement reflected nicely on the rest of your post. :/ Unfounded and exaggerated.

 

[Lord Mountbatten Reborn]

I can't even understand the OP. I know it's attempting to defend seal hunting, but somehow humanity "falls" to a pinnacle. How?

I also didn't understand the rest, but it insulted hippies, among others, so it sounds rather like a troll to me.

A troll, seriously... To start humanity is obviously on top of the food chain (or the pinnacle) and we're most definitely the apex predator in any environment. And Hippies, really. I mean who's a hippie anymore? Human society has broken down into so many classifications that in my opinion if you're not just a human being then you're hiding behind a persona, you could just be a scenester hippie freak. But words certainly mean very little to those that read between them.

You can't "fall" to a pinnacle. You climb.

And the rest of what you said there still made no sense.

 

[KnightRider0717]

pauls not unstable, just it shows that either his age or the drugs he has done has fried his mind a bit

 

[ShaqLevick]

I'm reminded of Dr. Who last week when Britain was traversing the stars on the back of a space whale, it was an organism only the Dr. could understand with his science. Well, who is to say the life balance in any plant doesn't feel some sort of loss when severed from the host. Not quantifiable, but would it really matter in the long run? So Predators are evil? Well most species hunt children, a clearly inhuman act. Clearly we do indulge from time to time, but at least we're the best of the worst. Don't buy into the sanctity of life because it's a jungle out there, and a lot of the humans have already caught on.

I'll happily eat meat but in moderation. The production of meat has a quite large invironmental impact as well, at least reletive to the production of "plants" (I can look for sources if you really care to listen to it but for now, I'm just going to say I read it on Wikipedia for now ; ) ).

I'm not saying meat is bad but I'm sure we'll survive without eating it every day.

You are quite correct my friend, we eat far too much meat. I mean I'm not going to look up any facts, but Americans eat something like 20-100x the meat needed for a healthy diet, and China is catching up in a hurry. It's quite ridiculous, we could all do with a little more salad.

 

[Calgetorix]

people tend to not think beyond the happy and peaceful world they see when they look out the window. they'd be stricken by how terrible the world is if they did

I hope you don't think of me when saying that, I've seen Deadliest Catch on Discovery! I know how they skin some animals alive some places among other things. Really, whatever cruel thing you can imagine doing towards an animal doesn't surprise me if it happens somewhere in the world regularly. That doesn't stop me from hoping for the better, though.

 

[Liberaliter]

I'm all for clubbing seals, any kind of animal really. Except Ducks... and cats. Oh and Llamas.

 

[Serioli]

'We've always done it' is a poor argument for continuation of a morally questionable action.

Ah, I see it now. Again apologies, by 'it' I meant [action] and was referring to my previous post regarding slavery,genocide etc

'Humanity has always had slavery' does not end the idea of stopping slavery. 'We have always killed seals' does not just end the argument against killing seals.

Before the inevitable... NO I AM NOT COMPARING SLAVERY TO SEAL CLUBBING. I am saying that 'We have always had [morally questionable action]' does not automatically quash all arguments against [morally questionable action]

 

[ShaqLevick]

And yet has done nothing to show that he is unstable, or that he is addicted to drugs. Actually I think that statement reflected nicely on the rest of your post. :/ Unfounded and exaggerated.

Durr, it was an enraged rant. I'm sure Sir Paul is the tits, doesn't mean I pay any heed to his words of wisdom. Besides who needs facts this isn't my thesis on the cultural implications of the seal hunt, you really must agree that there is something more important to talk about every single day of the year.

 

[punkrocker27]

Wait a minute. Earlier you said that clubbing a seal is more humane than shooting it and guns are inherently evil. A little objective from the mindset of rationality, no? I'm not sure myself how exactly the process works, but if you can take the time to get up close enough to the animal and land a clean killing blow to the head than wouldn't it be just as easy and painless to land a killshot between the eyes? But then there is the issue of the environment which you raised. It would be troublesome to have to collect the expended round from the seal's head (if that's even necessary) but this isn't Halo we're talking about here; there won't be bullets flying everywhere and people constantly dropping empty clips on the fly.

Still, I think that it's really an issue of tradition vs progressiveness (i.e. the Inuit groups and fishers vs animal rights organizations like PETA.)

 

[KnightRider0717]

people tend to not think beyond the happy and peaceful world they see when they look out the window. they'd be stricken by how terrible the world is if they did

I hope you don think of me when saying that, I've seen Deadliest Catch on Discovery! I know how they skin some animals alive some places among other things. Really, whatever cruel thing you can imagine doing towards an animal doesn't surprise me if it happens somewhere in the world regularly. That doesn't stop me from hoping for the better, though.

im just saying there's people in the world that think everything is perfect and for some reason get upset when something they don't agree that's very trivial when you look at the big picture. the hardest part for me to accept is the reasoning. i know there's some people around that are against things like the seal hunt for the sole reason that a baby seal is cute and fuzzy. id like to bring them to africa and show them the problems with aids and starvation or to the middle east and show them the wars. it doesn't even have to be something as major as those examples, even something like a kid getting bullied at school. there's suffering everywhere in the world as much as people don't want to believe it. by now you probably think i see nothing positively since i seem to only see problems in the world but that's how it is when you look at things in a rational and realistic way

 

[PinkAngelKitty]

And yet has done nothing to show that he is unstable, or that he is addicted to drugs. Actually I think that statement reflected nicely on the rest of your post. :/ Unfounded and exaggerated.

Durr, it was an enraged rant. I'm sure Sir Paul is the tits, doesn't mean I pay any heed to his words of wisdom. Besides who needs facts this isn't my thesis on the cultural implications of the seal hunt, you really must agree that there is something more important to talk about every single day of the year.

Really? :|

If that was your point why did you even bother making this thread? Now we're talking about it. If you wanted to make that point you should have a made thread about anything other than the seal hunt. :|

 

[KnightRider0717]

Wait a minute. Earlier you said that clubbing a seal is more humane than shooting it and guns are inherently evil. A little objective from the mindset of rationality, no? I'm not sure myself how exactly the process works, but if you can take the time to get up close enough to the animal and land a clean killing blow to the head than wouldn't it be just as easy and painless to land a killshot between the eyes? But then there is the issue of the environment which you raised. It would be troublesome to have to collect the expended round from the seal's head (if that's even necessary) but this isn't Halo we're talking about here; there won't be bullets flying everywhere and people constantly dropping empty clips on the fly.

Still, I think that it's really an issue of tradition vs progressiveness (i.e. the Inuit groups and fishermen vs animal rights organizations like PETA.)

one hit to the back of the head can sever the spinal cord and since signals can't get sent to the brain that there's injury it doesn't get interpreted as pain, you can't always be sure it'll be a kill shot and you also risk damage to the meat and coat